Very good life indeed

[MarillionFan]

How we connect giving life to the arbitrary notion money is necessary for society to exist is beyond me to breathtaking.

You're life today was the process of millions of years of evolution, the pound in your pocket could be worth halve it's value next week should Merv decide to press the printing button. Should the lucky couple wait until then to find out?

I agree with Wim. I waited for years until i was financially stable before whipping the johnny off. :

[gingerjedi]

You all seem to live in a dream world regarding just how much state benefits actually are,

If you know somebody on the dole who drinks regularly, smokes, runs a car, and has a houseful of gadgets that were bought during the time they were on benefits and not before ...

Then that person is working on the side.

There are a lot of them, I have even done it myself in the past briefly. It's a matter of survival.

It's a way of life for some people, I know a guy who has 3 casual cash in hand jobs but apparently (according to him) doesn't earn enough to pay tax, he also grows cannabis to top up his income.

He lives on a council estate but can afford to go skiing, dine out in nice restaurants and spend a month a year in Thailand. His lifestyle isn't uncommon for someone who knows how to play the game.

It's the 'normal' people who would ordinarily just work and pay their taxes that are coming unstuck this time around as they don't know how to 'play the game'.

Just goes to show how the safety net fails the people it was meant to catch but at the same time acts as base income for the long term players.

[wim121]

You're life today was the process of millions of years of evolution, the pound in your pocket could be worth halve it's value next week should Merv decide to press the printing button. Should the lucky couple wait until then to find out?

You can try the argument of we're all made from stardust, blah mystified junk if you like.

But putting those facts aside, if one cannot afford to support themselves, do not procreate. A child deserves better than to be born in to poverty,

Impossible.

Yes ... I am calling you a LIAR!!!!!

One thing Im not is a liar

It is very possible. Food does not cost much even now, variety and convenience is what costs money.

We survived on far less than £10 at times for prolonged periods. The way we did it was through tins of value cheapo baked beans for pennies and then timed our shopping trip to shops reduction hours.

At our local tesco, they must have had one over enthusiastic bake, because every week, shelves full of bakery items were knocked down to 5p each. Doughnuts, croissants, bread, swirls, etc etc.

At the end of the week though, you'd be bored of baked beans on toast, cheap pasta and doughnuts were far from a treat when you have to eat them constantly. Im glad we didnt have to live like that for too long!

I still hit the reductions now and know the days/nights my local tesco, sainsbury, morrisons and asda commonly reduce. It's a bit like a compulsion I cant stop, but a good one because we save so much money. I feel very aggrieved and disappointed in myself, If I ever walk out of any shop, be it clothing or grocery, paying full price.

Then I will hit them and score bargains. A couple weeks back from morrisons were bistro duck dinner kits down from £7 to £3 and dinner curry/other chicken dishes kits down from £5 to £2. Most weeks from morrisons, I can get pasties and things off the chicken counter for over half off. Sainsbury's had fishcakes down from £2 to 50p when I popped in for some mince beef and Asda had bakery items reduced from over £1 to 20p, yummy! Ate very nicely that week indeed! Mmmmmmm love morrisons dinner kits!




Im glad most people lack common sense or caution with money though, otherwise there would be less bargains! You have to time you visits though, stalk the staff members reducing down to the final low prices and be prepared to dive in, tag team if with someone and get the deals while they are on the shelves. A lot of times, Im tempted to humm the jaws sound effect as I lurk in the aisles.

[wim121]

You all seem to live in a dream world regarding just how much state benefits actually are,

If you know somebody on the dole who drinks regularly, smokes, runs a car, and has a houseful of gadgets that were bought during the time they were on benefits and not before ...

I live in an area that is full of welfare people, by new labour design.

I have met far too many. Most of them can afford everything you listed. Most choose though not to have cars because they dont need them. They have no job to go to and cant/should drive drunk ....

I have met people even on basic incapacity payments or JSA bundled with other benefits that have been better off, than myself working in younger years.



What you are missing is the point on the snowball effect. Once you get on one benefit, you can then start to get on others. They start to snowball and before you know it, you're a black lesbian with eight children living in chelsea milking £150k off the state every year.

[scooterscot]

You can try the argument of we're all made from stardust, blah mystified junk if you like.

But putting those facts aside, if one cannot afford to support themselves, do not procreate. A child deserves better than to be born in to poverty,

That's life. That's surviving. That's the animal kingdom.

Poverty is not defined by the lack of money, but the state of being poor. Money is consequential and a means to control.

My mother was one of twelve brought up on a working farm. Working the land brought them all the wealth in life they needed with not a penny between them.

[KimberleyChris]

"It's the 'normal' people who would ordinarily just work and pay their taxes that are coming unstuck this time around as they don't know how to 'play the game'."

Agreed 100%,
For someone like myself who grew up in an era of high employment, and who had never claimed dole for more than a month or so before (in other words before the war chest was empty), it is always a mystery.

I used to joke to K that 'there must be a book you can buy' which tells you how to screw the system, because other people on the dole seemed 'richer' than us.

I now know how it is done. Many people actually grow up in a dole environment, and they class any 'cash in hand' work as 'OK on top of your dole'. They are part of a 'separate' economy.

I have had to do it myself. Most of these casual 'back of the transit' jobs are at or below minimum wage, which is WHY the 'employers' only use people on benefits. It's a complete economic system that most of us are unaware of.

[EternalOptimist]

between 78 and 88, I had about 110 quid a fortnight IIRC for me and the kid.

That was to pay for lekky, gas , clothes food and incidentals.
The rent was paid by the local authority.

and yes, it was tough.

there are several distinct phases that you go through, each lasting a few years.
most people only go through phase 1. most people here will only comprehend phase 1
most people here will only empathise with phase 1.
most people here are bluddy lucky.

phase 1.
You still have a lot of fat left on you from previous employement. You have a support network, wellwishers and confidence. Your borrowing credentials are good, your boots will last a few years, as will your jeans, coats, socks undies, pans cutlery, cups, plates and carpet.
the place doesnt need decorating for years. Those jars of spices will last years, the lawn mower is good, washing line - good. Holidays ? a problem, but the rellies will put us up, at least that will get us out of the house.
Alcohol ? great. this gives me a chance to get into the home brew.
Hardware ? telly is good for a few years, ditch the phone.
Cash flow is covered by friends and well wishers, esp the parents. They often wont ask for the loans back, they know you are struggling. Rellies will often refuse to take back the money, as long as you make the effort to offer it. Friends will sometimes take the money, sometimes not. They will often leave you without a drink if you cant get a round or a coffe in. thats not nice. they wont be friends for much longer.

Phase 2.
now its getting tough.
Your trainers have been quarantined by environmental health. they stank so bad, you had to get a new pair. Thats a weeks money gone.
Your @rse is falling out of your jeans, your coat is threadbare at the elbows, but you cant afford a new one.
The plates have mostly broken, you use plastic mugs, just because they are non breakable and the pans have all gone. how was that even possible ?
No one will lend any more. The parents will give small donations, but the look on the faces is claer - dont even pretend you will pay it back - we know you wont.
The house is looking tattered - tough. The kid needs money for the school trip - tough.
The telly exploded. some bloke in a shop in bootle is selling reconditioned tellies for 20 quid.
you get one. it blows up. you get another. it blows up. the third one last for a few more years, thank christ.
Your mate is throwing out an old two man tent. you tell your kid you are going hill walking for a holiday this year. she is so ecstatic that it nearly shows.

Phase 3.
By now, there is zero fat left. you have to steal now and then and put the gas and lekky on the fiddle. Noone will lend you anything. the flat is in tatters and so are you. You have hit on the exact formula to get pissed every night, to blot it all out - 2 litres of jager and 2l of cidre.
only half of the adverts on the telly apply to you - you are excluded. why ? what have you done wrong ?
the kid tells you that she would like her traditional birthday treat. just me and her sitting by the leeds liverpool canal with a 40p bag of monkey nuts and a lemonade bottle filled with tap water. then you realise that she means it.

maybe things arnt so bad after all.

[gingerjedi]

You can try the argument of we're all made from stardust, blah mystified junk if you like.

But putting those facts aside, if one cannot afford to support themselves, do not procreate. A child deserves better than to be born in to poverty,









One thing Im not is a liar

It is very possible. Food does not cost much even now, variety and convenience is what costs money.

We survived on far less than £10 at times for prolonged periods. The way we did it was through tins of value cheapo baked beans for pennies and then timed our shopping trip to shops reduction hours.

At our local tesco, they must have had one over enthusiastic bake, because every week, shelves full of bakery items were knocked down to 5p each. Doughnuts, croissants, bread, swirls, etc etc.

At the end of the week though, you'd be bored of baked beans on toast, cheap pasta and doughnuts were far from a treat when you have to eat them constantly. Im glad we didnt have to live like that for too long!

I still hit the reductions now and know the days/nights my local tesco, sainsbury, morrisons and asda commonly reduce. It's a bit like a compulsion I cant stop, but a good one because we save so much money. I feel very aggrieved and disappointed in myself, If I ever walk out of any shop, be it clothing or grocery, paying full price.

Then I will hit them and score bargains. A couple weeks back from morrisons were bistro duck dinner kits down from £7 to £3 and dinner curry/other chicken dishes kits down from £5 to £2. Most weeks from morrisons, I can get pasties and things off the chicken counter for over half off. Sainsbury's had fishcakes down from £2 to 50p when I popped in for some mince beef and Asda had bakery items reduced from over £1 to 20p, yummy! Ate very nicely that week indeed! Mmmmmmm love morrisons dinner kits!




Im glad most people lack common sense or caution with money though, otherwise there would be less bargains! You have to time you visits though, stalk the staff members reducing down to the final low prices and be prepared to dive in, tag team if with someone and get the deals while they are on the shelves. A lot of times, Im tempted to humm the jaws sound effect as I lurk in the aisles.

I'm all for saving money and like you I hardly ever pay full price for anything but... you're one step away from bin dipping!

It does make me chuckle that I spend far less on a day to day basis than any of the permies I work with, I honestly wonder if they ever stop and think why they go to work in the first place.

[gingerjedi]

between 78 and 88, I had about 110 quid a fortnight IIRC for me and the kid.

That was to pay for lekky, gas , clothes food and incidentals.
The rent was paid by the local authority.

and yes, it was tough.

there are several distinct phases that you go through, each lasting a few years.
most people only go through phase 1. most people here will only comprehend phase 1
most people here will only empathise with phase 1.
most people here are bluddy lucky.

phase 1.
You still have a lot of fat left on you from previous employement. You have a support network, wellwishers and confidence. Your borrowing credentials are good, your boots will last a few years, as will your jeans, coats, socks undies, pans cutlery, cups, plates and carpet.
the place doesnt need decorating for years. Those jars of spices will last years, the lawn mower is good, washing line - good. Holidays ? a problem, but the rellies will put us up, at least that will get us out of the house.
Alcohol ? great. this gives me a chance to get into the home brew.
Hardware ? telly is good for a few years, ditch the phone.
Cash flow is covered by friends and well wishers, esp the parents. They often wont ask for the loans back, they know you are struggling. Rellies will often refuse to take back the money, as long as you make the effort to offer it. Friends will sometimes take the money, sometimes not. They will often leave you without a drink if you cant get a round or a coffe in. thats not nice. they wont be friends for much longer.

Phase 2.
now its getting tough.
Your trainers have been quarantined by environmental health. they stank so bad, you had to get a new pair. Thats a weeks money gone.
Your @rse is falling out of your jeans, your coat is threadbare at the elbows, but you cant afford a new one.
The plates have mostly broken, you use plastic mugs, just because they are non breakable and the pans have all gone. how was that even possible ?
No one will lend any more. The parents will give small donations, but the look on the faces is claer - dont even pretend you will pay it back - we know you wont.
The house is looking tattered - tough. The kid needs money for the school trip - tough.
The telly exploded. some bloke in a shop in bootle is selling reconditioned tellies for 20 quid.
you get one. it blows up. you get another. it blows up. the third one last for a few more years, thank christ.
Your mate is throwing out an old two man tent. you tell your kid you are going hill walking for a holiday this year. she is so ecstatic that it nearly shows.

Phase 3.
By now, there is zero fat left. you have to steal now and then and put the gas and lekky on the fiddle. Noone will lend you anything. the flat is in tatters and so are you. You have hit on the exact formula to get pissed every night, to blot it all out - 2 litres of jager and 2l of cidre.
only half of the adverts on the telly apply to you - you are excluded. why ? what have you done wrong ?
the kid tells you that she would like her traditional birthday treat. just me and her sitting by the leeds liverpool canal with a 40p bag of monkey nuts and a lemonade bottle filled with tap water. then you realise that she means it.

maybe things arnt so bad after all.

You are Chrissie Todd and I claim my 5 greenshield stamps.

[KimberleyChris]

So as to go to bed with a peaceful mind.

I would like to apologise on open forum to wim121 for calling him a liar.

I do not agree that it is possible to feed a family a normal minimum British diet on state benefits only, unless you are screwing the system, but that's just numbers.

But it is a serious thing to call somebody a liar, because you are insulting the person.