State Religion

[Waldorf]

If we are going to stop being a christian country we should be careful what we replace it with or we might go right downhill alot faster than we are now.

Why replace it with anything? State and religion should not mix.

[Waldorf]

Why exactly? In many towns these are the preferred/popular schools even by secular parents.

I believe that all children should be educated together and not segregated into different faiths. At an extreme, take a look at Northern Ireland and the problems there.

Taken from the National Secular Society:

Publicly funded religious schools (or 'faith schools') make up around a third of our education system. This seriously limits choice for parents who do not want a religious education for their children, or do not share the faith of the local school.

We are opposed to faith schools in principle and campaign instead for a secular education system in which religious groups play no formal part. Religious organisations see schools as a way to produce the next generation of believers. The state should not be paying for that.

Over-subscribed religious schools can discriminate in admissions based on the religion of the child's parents. This exemption from equality legislation enables children to be separated into faith groups and poses a threat to community cohesion.

What success faith schools achieve is usually attributable to the privileged selection processes they alone are allowed to operate, which permit them to cherry-pick certain pupils including those who come from supportive and better-off families who are prepared to 'play the system' by feigning belief and screen out pupils who would be a drain on the school's resources (special needs, free school meals, for example).

Faith schools are also granted special privileges in the way they select and employ staff. Teachers can be denied jobs at faith schools if they do not share the faith of the school.

The Government' desire for greater proportion of academies and free schools, which are independent and self-governing, will see more and more control of state funded education handed to religious organisations.

[KimberleyChris]

I believe that all children should be educated together and not segregated into different faiths. At an extreme, take a look at Northern Ireland and the problems there.

Taken from the National Secular Society:

I went to a faith school in the 1960s (my parents were non-practicing Roman Catholics). It was run by a clique of rather fanatical staff, and I don't remember being taught anything much except religion.

I know that when I then moved on to a secular/nominally CofE secondary school, I soon realised that the other kids had had a better education than me. I heard other pupils talking about their old primary school's History / Science / Geography teacher etc, and I couldn't even name the equivalent teachers at my old school. It was either religion or glorified child-minding for the rest of the time.

Perhaps that's why I agree with that statement from the Secular Society. I now regard belief in God as an indicator of mental illness and/or a weak, suggestible logic-free mind.

If parents hold strong religious beliefs, then they should pay for their own schools themselves via their churches/mosques/synagogues etc.

[BrilloPad]

Why replace it with anything? State and religion should not mix.

You need some sort of standards. Though clearly standards in parliament have been very low frecently. I can see quite a few MPs roasting in hell being rogered by andyw for all eternity.

[KimberleyChris]

"You need some sort of standards".

Yes we do, and there are a set of ancient universal human ethics. But don't make the mistake of thinking that they can only be derived from religion.

If we assume that the bible was written by men, then it reflects the ethics of the men who wrote it.

They then just made it out to be the word of god to lend 'authority' to their ethics.

Buddhism, for example, is also full of noble ethics, but there is no god per se in Buddhism.

[BrilloPad]

"You need some sort of standards".

Yes we do, and there are a set of ancient universal human ethics. But don't make the mistake of thinking that they can only be derived from religion.

If we assume that the bible was written by men, then it reflects the ethics of the men who wrote it.

They then just made it out to be the word of god to lend 'authority' to their ethics.

Buddhism, for example, is also full of noble ethics, but there is no god per se in Buddhism.

Which was exactly what I said in the first place. the uk does not have to be a christian country.

Its a bit like saying get rid of capitalism. fine - but find something better to replace it with first.

It is very easy to criticize. Much harder to suggest a better way forward.

[KimberleyChris]

"Much harder to suggest a better way forward".

Not really: Just be 'human'.

1. All people shall be free to practice (within the law) any religion they choose, or none.

2. The state will not involve itself (legally, financially or in any other way) with religion. Peoples' religion, or lack of it. It will be a totally private matter.

[norrahe]

I believe that all children should be educated together and not segregated into different faiths. At an extreme, take a look at Northern Ireland and the problems there.

Those "problems" have about 800 years of history that are not just tied to religion, unfortunately a rookie political mistake in the 1920's lead to the division of north and south. The separation has not been helped by enforced religious division within the education system.

[KimberleyChris]

Those "problems" have about 800 years of history that are not just tied to religion, unfortunately a rookie political mistake in the 1920's lead to the division of north and south. The separation has not been helped by enforced religious division within the education system.

Even older. People forget that it was not the British who conquered Ireland...it was the Normans.

A cynic might say that the current situation in Ireland is actually "Ireland's Scottish Problem".

[Platypus]

Why are so many of the religious incapable of grasping the distinction between having the freedom to practice their faith and forcing it upon others?

IIRC that's what the Bible (Jesus) tells them to do.