I propose a new goal for the western world

[DimPrawn]

So speaks one of the richest people on the planet

Oi!

Actually, that's me that is!

[Jeff Maginty]

..

[EternalOptimist]

I think that in a democracy, if the democaratic will is to have more suffering, you are being jolly unreasonable and anti democratic.

all in favour of more suffering raise you right trotter



oink

[CheeseSlice]

Invade their country, take the f**kers over and enforce peace and prosperity on them (British empire style!). Maybe if the US, Russia & UK joined forces it could happen. Get a few more on-side (e.g. India, China, Australia) and it's a done-deal!

That is what I imagine George Bush Junior thought when deciding to invade both Iraq and Afghanistan.....

[AtW]

Oi!

Actually, that's me that is!

No, this is you - pathetic broken minded little bum.

[DodgyAgent]

Wot? I hope you're not implying that I'm rich. I'm a 30 grand-per-year permie, and I don't even own a house.

Besides, I never claimed to be righteous. There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. I don't claim to walk the path but at least I can see it, which is more than can be said for most people nowadays...

two comments

If you are 30 grand a year permie what are you doing on here?

There is indeed a difference between walking the path and knowing the path, so p*** off and walk it and when you have come back and tell us if it works

[Lockhouse]

F_uck your pathetic obsessive pursuit of material wealth, with all the destruction, injustice and pain it brings.

In all seriousness I'd be happy with far less if I knew my future was going to be secure. As I have no idea what's going to happen to me, my family or this country in the future I have to have as much money sorted away as possible.

[BlasterBates]

The question is what is wasteful.

I think if you actually look at what you consume, most of it is pretty necessary really.

Where is 9o odd% of consumption.

House/Car/food/Petrol, Fridge, cooker bathroom fittings etc then insurances and pension.

So what are we left with. Well probably a holiday is one of the main expenses and then drinks in a pub.

So when we say get rid of wasteful consumerism what is wasteful?

What about houses. Most of the cost is actually the land, but if you look at population density it's much higher than it was a couple of hundred years ago, so are we really being wasteful?

When you go to a pub, basically you consume no more than a few pints of beer that would cost you a few quid in a Supermarket, so what we pay for is the service. In fact if you compare beer consumption of someone in today's "wasteful consumer" society is it higher than it was 100 years ago?

Sure some people buy a BMW instead of a Vauxhall, but actually a BMW has almost the identical amount of material in it than a Vauxhall. The difference in quality is quite small, most BMW's don't have leather seats, though it's questionable as to whether leather is a great deal more wasteful than textile. The main difference is in the quality of Engineering and workmanship.

..and what about food, of course agricultural techniques mean we produce a lot more per acre than we could a couple of hundred years ago, so is this wasteful? Surely this is more efficient meaning we can eat more without wasting more resources.

Yes we all eat a bit too much and maybe our furniture is more comfortable than it needs to be, but even so not clear to me whether you could reduce consumerism significantly without sticking people in concentration camps and starving them.

[BrilloPad]

F_uck your pathetic obsessive pursuit of material wealth, with all the destruction, injustice and pain it brings.

Instead....

why not make it your goal to end suffering..............................

Jesus said there will be poor always. A great pity but he was right.

[bobspud]

We can end suffering but its going to be an elite club and only a few people can join in...

The unwanted secret of the end to suffering is that: For us to put an end to suffering, the results could only be achieved with a massive population crash, roughly two thirds in my opinion.

We are over consuming the planet at an alarming rate. Unfortunately Helping the starving to survive so that they can reproduce is not a sensible option. For me to stop consuming so that a family in the third world can have a life is not on the table because I have no way of ensuring that once helped they will not in turn go for rampant consumerism.