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Why Chico is Good for us, and why he ruins it for all

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    Why Chico is Good for us, and why he ruins it for all

    Mark Steyn argues in Todays Telegraph that religion has a positive effect on communities and countries. There are very few countries he points out that have dispensed with religion, and those that have are in decline. He cites Russia as an examples of a non religious country blighted by a lack of morality and leadership from religious groups.

    I was reminded of our Gloucestershire lad by some remarks Frank Field made at a Centre for Policy Studies seminar last week. The subject under debate was poverty and social disintegration, and pondering the collapse of civility in modern Britain Mr Field gave seven reasons. Number One, he said, was the decline of religion.

    At that point, many Britons will simply have tuned out for the remaining six, and the more disapproving ones will be speculating darkly on whether, like yours truly and other uptight squares, he has "casual sex" issues. Religion is all but irrelevant to public discussion in the United Kingdom, and you'd have to search hard for an Anglican churchman prepared to argue in public, as Mr Field does, that material poverty derives from moral poverty.

    But the point is: he's not wrong. There aren't many examples of successful post-religious societies. And, if one casts around the world today, one notices the two powers with the worst prospects are the ones most advanced in their post-religiosity. Russia will never recover from seven decades of Communism: its sickly menfolk have a lower life expectancy than Bangladeshis; its population shrinks by 100 every hour, and by 0.4 per cent every year, a rate certain to escalate as the smarter folks figure it's better to emigrate than get sucked down in the demograp
    [/i].[/quote][/i]

    I accept that there is a need for a spiritual morality in society. The rule of law is too blunt an instrument to @#%$ our consciences into cooperating with our fellow human beings.

    Atheism if you think about is as dogmatic and as illogical as many of the more fundamental religions of this world. Just as there is no material evidence to support belief in god, there is also no evedince to support the fact that god does not exist in his spiritual form.

    Yes religion is often over zealous in how it is preached and interpreted. Religious extremism is as dangerous as anything in society. Before chico gets too carried away on this I would like to point out that his religion is a selfish religion- too many fellow christians are what I call "self indulgently religious". In other words they are in it because it gives them some sort of moral high ground, a spiritual superiority, in other words they are religious snobs. Why they need to shout from the roof tops about themselves can be answered by looking at their failings and their weaknesses rather than their strengths.

    It is a shame really that religion has been hijacked by so many sad laughing stocks because the net effect is that people are turned off by righteous idiots like chico.

    #2
    Doesn't seem much wrong with this to me;

    Humanist is used today to mean those who seek to live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs. Humanists believe that moral values are founded on human nature and experience, and base their moral principles on reason (which leads them to reject the idea of any supernatural agency or afterlife), shared human values and respect for others. They believe that people should work together to improve the quality of life for all and make it more equitable. Alone of the terms listed, Humanism offers a fully fledged ‘life-stance’ or world-view rather than an attitude towards or about religion.

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      #3
      Numpty, have you ever thought of becoming a missionary in Russia ?

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        #4
        Humanist is used today to mean those who seek to live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs.
        Oh, so a bit like Hitler then?

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          #5
          Who is that idiot? Is it chico's real name?
          Russia fell, not because it was a corrupt, inefficient, oversized, politically unworkable society but rather because it had no religion ? *sarcasm on*Sure it did.*sarcasm off*

          While I don't argue that religion can have a positive effect on a society, I do say in the long run those effects (at least in the case of Judaism based religions like Christianity or Islam) are normally, at best canceled out by the negatives religion normally brings, at worst totally outweighed by the negatives

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            #6
            Quote:
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            Humanist is used today to mean those who seek to live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs.
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            Oh, so a bit like Hitler then?
            You have to admit Hitler did alot of good work for Charidee

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              #7
              I really cannot be bothered to point out once again that atheism, which is simply not believing, is not the same as antitheism, a positive assertion that there is no god.

              I believe this equating of a loss of religious belief to a less caring and more lawless society is another one of those sloppy conclusions - we see religion decline, we see less respect for law and order and regard for other human beings. Ergo, the first is the cause of the second.

              Rather, I think we should look at the way we have diminished any sense of really belonging to a society. By the way the state, with its well meaning interference, has taken away so much control over our own lives and assumed the responsibilities, like care for our own elderly parents, that is still the norm in Bangladesh and some other more traditional societies. By a ridiculous pursuit of material wealth at the expense of everything else that is important to people. By moving so far ahead of perception in the destruction of any concept of community or even nationality.

              Rather than our uncaring society being down to decline of religion, I would say it was far closer to being the other way round. Take away any concern for or engagement with anything other than where the next four by four is coming from and how long can any spiritual dimension survive?

              Religion for 99% of people is not some cerebral committment as it seems to be for CL, it is about being part of a human community.

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                #8
                Rather, I think we should look at the way we have diminished any sense of really belonging to a society
                I agree but the church was once a major part of society, a focus for the community, a way of cohersion, a way to control and comfort the masses. I can't see why other non religious organisations cannot replace this role.

                There is largely no community now due to a host of reasons that doesn't mean it isn't worth trying to create one.
                Todays social problems exist beacuse we are willing to let them. People have trouble with the hooded yobs, they exist because their is no community so they feel nothing for their neighbourhood and those who would want to have community can do nothing on an individual basis.

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                  #9
                  I believe this equating of a loss of religious belief to a less caring and more lawless society is another one of those sloppy conclusions
                  Indeed, one only has to look at some of the antitheses of secular states in the world, Afghanistan for example, to see that religious belief does not necessarily equal peace and brotherly love for all.

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                    #10
                    You have to admit Hitler did alot of good work for Charidee
                    :lol You're on top form today, Numpty.

                    I'd believe that more than Chico's assertion that he was a humanist. Although Chico did say that many mainstream academics also maintained that Hitler was a humanist but, funnily enough, was unable to produce the names of any when challenged.

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