Poor, poor strikers go shopping

[doodab]

We can have a separate discussion about the ownership of capital and what is wrong about too much power and property being held in the hands of too few people. But do not try and switch the argument.
My point is that these people are striking from a position of aggregated power and monopoly. They are privileged in that they know that their customers have no choice but to go to them for services. They are further privileged that their jobs are highly protected and that they have cast iron pensions for when they retire. I have no problem with anyone striking as long as I am free to choose who I go to for services. British Airways is a case in point. Their trolly dollies went on strike and as a consumer I could use another airline so the problem was confined to BA. If BA was not looking after its staff then its profits would be hit forcing it to compromise between conditions for its employees , services to customers and its own profits. This is how it should be.

If these people in the public sector are going to enjoy such privilege then they should carry responsibility or have their monopoly taken away from them.

That's sort of the point though, isn't it. If their cast iron pensions are taken away they don't have them any more.

All you seem to be saying is that no one should be allowed to strike if it affects you.

[DodgyAgent]

This is cobblers as well. Many great inventions and achievements were created by people raised in a position of relative privilege with access to education and frequently with sufficient wealth to devote a great deal of time and money to pursuit of their ideas.

I did not say they were poor I simply said that they were not brought up within an environment of rights and entitlement

[original PM]

Surely that means it's the people running it who need "shuffling"?

Yes it does -- and they were, it was called the general election

[doodab]

I did not say they were poor I simply said that they were not brought up within an environment of rights and entitlement

You said

Nothing has been achieved by any society that enjoys an easy pampered life.

And I disagree with this. Much of what has been achieved has been achieved by those living a relatively easy and pampered life.

[BlasterBates]

You don't need to be wealthy to start a company, nobody uses their own money to start a company, that's what banks are for. That's the whole idea of a capitalist system. Steve Jobbs started his company in a garage.

You just need hard graft, determination and ability.

Anyone can make it.

I play music in pubs and I can guarantee if I had the ability (which I don't, but if I did) there would be no hurdles to making a lot of money if I had the determination and energy. The fact that you don't have money when you begin would not be a problem, why? because you could get a loan.

[DodgyAgent]

That's sort of the point though, isn't it. If their cast iron pensions are taken away they don't have them any more.

All you seem to be saying is that no one should be allowed to strike if it affects you.

I am not saying that at all, I am simply saying that as long as I am free to acquire goods and services where I want then I have no problem with the principle of striking. Of course a BA semi monopoly will cause a great deal of inconvenience but the mechanism for correcting the balance between company profit , treatment of workers and customer service is self correcting.
What I do not like is being forced to pay for something that is then not delivered. In this case the public sector workers should not be allowed to strike.
If you dissect their arguments the reason they are striking is because they live within a culture of entitlement.

[original PM]

And I disagree with this. Much of what has been achieved has been achieved by those living a relatively easy and pampered life.

Well thats just b0ll0x - it may have been achieved by people who were living above the poverty line who had a warm house to go to but I will guaranee you that any achievements were on the back of hardwork and long hours and not regimented tea breaks.

[doodab]

You don't need to be wealthy to start a company, nobody uses their own money to start a company, that's what banks are for. That's the whole idea of a capitalist system. Steve Jobbs started his company in a garage.

You need to be relatively well off to have the time and energy to develop an idea and a plan in the first place. Somebody working 60hrs a week who spends another 10hrs travelling and cannot afford or is unable to take significant time off or pay for childcare etc is going to find it considerably harder.

[DodgyAgent]

You said



And I disagree with this. Much of what has been achieved has been achieved by those living a relatively easy and pampered life.

Name me one great inventor who believed that society owed him a living.

[doodab]

Well thats just b0ll0x - it may have been achieved by people who were living above the poverty line who had a warm house to go to but I will guaranee you that any achievements were on the back of hardwork and long hours and not regimented tea breaks.

I'm not saying they didn't work very hard, I'm saying that a life of relative privilege gave them the freedom to work hard at what they wanted to work hard at.