Oh Dear: Spot the difference (it's 3mm)

[meridian]

nice avatar

May I say, hyperD, I've only just noticed your avatar!

[BoredBloke]

"People are so fcuked up with this propaganda of pandering to the bottom line that it is fast becoming comical."

The situation you pointed out was stupid plain and simple, but the regulations relating to disabilities are not pandering to the bottom line. They are supposed to set a minimum level which people with disabilities can expect. Simple things such as a Braille menu in restraunts. How difficult is that to organise especially as the RNIB will braille a menu for free.

[hyperD]

"People are so fcuked up with this propaganda of pandering to the bottom line that it is fast becoming comical."

The situation you pointed out was stupid plain and simple, but the regulations relating to disabilities are not pandering to the bottom line.

Sorry Tony, I was replying from where Gold Dalek left off and attempting to move the thread onto a pet peeve of mine. Had I not had quite so many pints of Young's St Georges last night I would have made the distinction.

My wife works for procurement in that industry and she believes that SWT could have replaced the screens earlier but were simply hoping to get away with it. She's nosing around at work for some more dirt on this...

[hyperD]

May I say, hyperD, I've only just noticed your avatar!

Ey thenk yew...

[Mordac]

The digital displays in each carriage, which show the stations that the train will stop at

If you are already on the train, why do you need to know what stations the train will be stopping at? They are announced over the tannoy anyway. This is completely barmy.

[Gold Dalek]

Yes, it seems interesting that it's perceived to be better to have trains that are inadequate for all than trains that are inadequate for the deaf and blind.

But can you be all things to all people all the time?

[Gold Dalek]

"So they wouldn't be able to hear the accompanying announcements then, or would that be too pragmatic and not sufficiently accomodating?"

Can you hear the announcements clearly, every time? How often do you hear the announcement and then check the sign on the platform or the display in the train before getting off? Now imagine that you have difficulty seeing whereby the visual signs are not an option. Also, people with limited sight need more time to get to the door than is given by the announcement.

"what you are actually saying is that it’s fine to inconvenience the majority as long as minorities are catered for = disability fascism"

No that is not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that if these signs do not adhere to the regulations then they should be replaced. How long does it take to replace a few LED displays. I would say that the trains in question should stay in service with an agreement to have the signs changed by a set date. A smaller sign is better than no sign but to decide not to change them at all is not the right option.

I wouldn't call this disabilty facism either. It is simply a case of doing a few small things to make life a little easier for people who have to rely on public transport as their only means of transport.

"I wouldn't call this disabilty facism either. It is simply a case of doing a few small things to make life a little easier for people"

That is the propaganda, what you are talking about is compulsion, backed up by the DDA police to enforce & a massive cost overhead for any business.

"people who have to rely on public transport as their only means of transport"

So you do not have a disability sticker on your car for your child?

[The Lone Gunman]

"I wouldn't call this disabilty facism either. It is simply a case of doing a few small things to make life a little easier for people"

That is the propaganda, what you are talking about is compulsion, backed up by the DDA police to enforce & a massive cost overhead for any business.

"people who have to rely on public transport as their only means of transport"

So you do not have a disability sticker on your car for your child?

Back off a bit there Dalek. The blind and the partially sighted have every right to be independant travallers and should be able to expect reasonable signage and announcements.

This thing is more the PC police than anyone else and the solution is overboard, probably in everyones opinion. I bet the replacement trains have no signs at all so they cant be undersized. Nobody is a winner here.

[BoredBloke]

"That is the propaganda, what you are talking about is compulsion, backed up by the DDA police to enforce & a massive cost overhead for any business. "

SWT have had as much time as anybody else to comply with this legislation. As stated before the trains were ordered in 97 and the legislation came in in 98 - its now 06. Why have they not made moves to comply between 98 and now? Why are they the only ones to fall foul of it? Why, becuase they were trying to call the bluff. The cost implications are not that great either in the whole scheme of things. Blind and partially sighted people have no other option but to use public transport. Everybody else does have the option of using their own private transport if theyu can afford to do so. Therefore, the least they can expect is for the trains to cater for their needs. To take an extreme view, why incurr the cost of building a platform. Why not have a ladder to get onto a train? It is certainly cheaper. Why pander to the old, the young and the unfit who could not use it.


"So you do not have a disability sticker on your car for your child?"

Yes we do have a badge for our car . Why do you disagree with disabled parking also?

[Gold Dalek]

Back off a bit there Dalek. The blind and the partially sighted have every right to be independant travallers and should be able to expect reasonable signage and announcements.

This thing is more the PC police than anyone else and the solution is overboard, probably in everyones opinion. I bet the replacement trains have no signs at all so they cant be undersized. Nobody is a winner here.

Strip out the emotion from this...

The blind will not be affected as they cannot see the signs

The partially sighted are accommodated by the tannoy announcements

But as always, that's never enough and the majority have to be inconvenienced by the withdraw of trains - & just to remind you:

"28 trains withdrawn as disability groups complain that letters on signs are too small

RAIL passengers are used to bizarre excuses for delays or overcrowding, but even the longest-suffering commuter will be stunned by the latest reason to be given by South West Trains.
It is having to withdraw a modern fleet from one of its busiest routes because the letters on information screens are 3mm too small to comply with disability regulations. "