So when do we Eurolanders get the bill and how much will it be?

[wobbegong]

So what if all of northern Europe refuses to pay any tax? You know, a sort of taxpayer revolt?

Apart from quitting your job, not driving, and not buying anything, how can you "refuse to pay any tax"?

[Mich the Tester]

Apart from quitting your job, not driving, and not buying anything, how can you "refuse to pay any tax"?

People still get sent bills for many kinds of tax; council tax, car tax, VAT (for businesses), tax on property etc.

[TimberWolf]

Ah, but in northern Europe (the bits where we pay the bills) people are getting pretty peeved. Not just about the Eurodebt but about the banking troubles in general, the huge disparities in pay between top and bottom of businesses and a feeling that the middle classes are being bled dry. Mind you, we're all at work all day so we can't really go out and revolt. But if unemployment rises and the middle class start taking the hits, hmm....could be interesting.

Oi! Point of Order! You're supposed to be the defender of Euro.

[wobbegong]

People still get sent bills for many kinds of tax; council tax, car tax, VAT (for businesses), tax on property etc.

True, but if you are unemployed, I think I'm right in saying you don't pay council tax (maybe only a part of it?) anyway, and if you don't drive then you won't be buying road tax or paying the duty on fuel.

[Mich the Tester]

True, but if you are unemployed, I think I'm right in saying you don't pay council tax (maybe only a part of it?) anyway, and if you don't drive then you won't be buying road tax or paying the duty on fuel.

Ah, hmmm, no you still pay here in NL. My point isn't that there'll necessarily be a tax revolt in northern Europe in the traditional sense, but I wonder how much extra taxation people will be prepared to bear as a result of all this.

[Mich the Tester]

Oi! Point of Order! You're supposed to be the defender of Euro.

Yeah, but that's only 'coz I don't like sorting the different kinds of coin in my pocket innit.

Don't get me wrong, I see that the Euro needs to be saved, for now, or at least time must be bought before a better construction can be made. I just get more and more concerned as I see the bigger and bigger numbers that are being discussed.

[BlasterBates]

The main thing it will affect is private pensions and the cost of insurance. Once those Greek bonds have been marked down by 60%, annuities will go down, pension profits won't be so high, insurance permiums will go up, and there'll be more job cuts in financial companies. It is possible that some banks will need an injection. Otherwise you won't notice it; that is unless they screw up and Euroland goes off into melt down.

[Mich the Tester]

The main thing it will affect is private pensions and the cost of insurance. Once those Greek bonds have been marked down by 60%, annuities will go down, pension profits won't be so high, insurance permiums will go up, and there'll be more job cuts in financial companies. It is possible that some banks will need an injection. Otherwise you won't notice it; that is unless they screw up and Euroland goes off into melt down.

This is potentially a big political issue as pensions are being 'reformed' whcih basically means everyone pays while the baby boomers party; younger workers in northern Europe are starting to get angry about having to wait longer for a smaller pension while (and largely because) goverments have delayed raising pension age for several years.

[BlasterBates]

This is potentially a big political issue as pensions are being 'reformed' whcih basically means everyone pays while the baby boomers party; younger workers in northern Europe are starting to get angry about having to wait longer for a smaller pension while (and largely because) goverments have delayed raising pension age for several years.

Yes but you won't get the same revolt you would if suddenly all governments in Europe suddenly had a big hole in their finances. That's why the losses will be borne by the private sector. In any case most private pensions have a guarantee and you just lose your profits, then they'll offer lower returns on future policies and annuities in the future. It won't be obvious to anyone personally, because most perople don't have a clue what a typical annuity is until they go and buy one.

[wobbegong]

Ah, hmmm, no you still pay here in NL. My point isn't that there'll necessarily be a tax revolt in northern Europe in the traditional sense, but I wonder how much extra taxation people will be prepared to bear as a result of all this.

I think Churchill was right when he said "Most of the UK has had any trace of rebellion drained from it.", sure people will moan, some might even demonstrate (while the weather holds) but then they'll all cough up the extra. It was the same with the hike in fuel prices, now 6 months on, we're all used to just paying more, there's no blockades, demos, picket lines, we just pay and grumble.