Should we vote on Europe?

[Mich the Tester]

Britain is the second largest net contributor to the EU's finances. Also the massive German trade surplus is at least in part down to our large trade deficit. If the EU tried to play hard ball on trade we could always point out that we buy a lot more from them than they do from us and if they want to try and cut us out then they will only be cutting of their own nose to spite their face. Also we have a permanent seat on the UN security council which gives us a lot of diplomatic clout (even though we slavishly follow the US line).

It is true that the Norwegians and the Swiss have to abide by many of the EU's rules but at least being out of the EU we would get to negotiate on a case by case basis which ones those would be.

A lot more what?

It seems to me that Britain's financial companies sell a hell of a lot of services in Europe and some continentals would just love to grab a share of that market.

[Mich the Tester]

It looks to me like populist claptrap from politicians who've just realised they don't actually have a clue about how to deal with real issues.

[Arturo Bassick]

A lot more what?

Balance sheets with the EU show the UK is a net importer from the rest of Europe.

The issue seems to be that the current version of the EU is not what we joined. The Common Market as was seemed a good idea, but constant political meddling have made it unwieldy.
I think it either needs cutting back to what it was or all members should throw in to a fully integrated European state.

It is the job of our Government to enforce the will of the people. Over years there has been less and less representation of the people. Government these days seems to work on a nanny knows best method which is not what democracy is about.

[Mich the Tester]

Balance sheets with the EU show the UK is a net importer from the rest of Europe.

The issue seems to be that the current version of the EU is not what we joined. The Common Market as was seemed a good idea, but constant political meddling have made it unwieldy.I think it either needs cutting back to what it was or all members should throw in to a fully integrated European state.

I think other EU countries would agree on this; certainly the northerners. Trouble is, they don't always listen to the British government as Britain has an image of whining and moaning about everything instead of being constructive in these matters.

It is the job of our Government to enforce the will of the people. Over years there has been less and less representation of the people. Government these days seems to work on a nanny knows best method which is not what democracy is about.

I don't really agree there; I think it's the government's job to govern on behalf of the governed, which is subtly but importantly different; that means sometimes taking unpopular decisions,having weighed up all the options, but then defending those decisions against a populace with the means to get rid of a government. Democracy's not about the will of the majority, but representation of as many people as possible, and the majority reserves the power to dump the executive if they're unsatisfied.

[d000hg]

Not on joining the Euro, but being in the EU itself?

BBC News - EU referendum: Hague likens call to 'piece of graffiti'

And would it make any difference. After all, a yes vote is binding and a no vote means doing another vote.

Sorry, you missed the day for stupid polls.

[Arturo Bassick]

I don't really agree there; I think it's the government's job to govern on behalf of the governed, which is subtly but importantly different; that means sometimes taking unpopular decisions,having weighed up all the options, but then defending those decisions against a populace with the means to get rid of a government. Democracy's not about the will of the majority, but representation of as many people as possible, and the majority reserves the power to dump the executive if they're unsatisfied.

My original point didn't cover everything I would like to say on this, but there is neither time nor space for that.
Certainly agree that sometimes Government has to defend the people from themselves or do the right thing which may cost the people dearly.
What I don't agree with is Government consistently going against the will of the people when the will of the people is so strong. In this case I sense the will of the people is very strong.
Sometimes Government has to take the governed into account.
For far too many years the governed have been completely ignored.
We get the same Government enforcing the same dogma with a slightly different bent to it.
No wonder voters are ignoring the ballot box in droves. One day they will say enough is enough and do something really stupid like vote BNP.

[Mich the Tester]

Indeed. We were all thoroughly stitched up in the last referendum for "The Common Market".

But "they" got "The Right Result" that time.

Vote Yes for the EuroSoviet, you know it makes sense.

Do you think the Dutch, the Belgians, the Germans, the Danes and the Swedes really support some kind of European uber-government that tells them what to do with their ports, their oil and gas reserves, their factories and their financial markets?

[Churchill]

Ah.

Then we can annexe the Sudetenland again.

:nazi:

[keninparis]

A tricky one. IMO, better off out of europe to stop getting involved in pointless wars and sending lambs the slaughter (hate those army adverts) but a common market makes sense.

[Arturo Bassick]

Do you think the Dutch, the Belgians, the Germans, the Danes and the Swedes really support some kind of European uber-government that tells them what to do with their ports, their oil and gas reserves, their factories and their financial markets?

That is what needs to happen if Europe is to thrive as the EU.
The idea of Nation states defending their corner has to go. The EU has to do what is best for itself as a whole. While individual heads of state are defending their own little patch the EU can not work.
All or nothing.