Hillsborough

[FiveTimes]

So the ticket less fans took up no space on the road or railways? Even if that were the case, there is still no excuse for all the pushing and shoving.

You are entitled to your view and it appears to be one of its all the fans fault. Regardless of whether you are right. Your view is one of the many ignorant people who feel the need to blame only the fans..

[eek]

Just cos it didn't happen doesn't mean it wasn't big enough. If all the pens hold 2000 people then 2000 tickets would have been issued.
The ticketless and late comers should have realised that there was no room for them and stopped pushing.

It doesn't work like that but then again I know something about crowds and crowd dynamics and you clearly don't.

The simple fact is that the crimes the police accused the fans of are not relevant to what occurred. To both accusations you can add the words so what and it doesn't change the story that the police failed to manage the crowd and then used a crap story to distract reporters from looking into their total incompetency.

[FiveTimes]

They should not have been there in the first place.
If you are going to blame the bizzies for their part you have to recognise the part played by everybody else.

Lots of elements were to blame, yes the fans surged and rushed to see their team.
Yes some of them had no tickets and no right to be there.

The police failed to react accordingly, failed to delay the kick off, failed to open the gates

The ground was inadequate.

[eek]

They should not have been there in the first place.
If you are going to blame the bizzies for their part you have to recognise the part played by everybody else.

Which shows that it was the police's fault as they should have stopped the ticketless getting close enough to the stadium for them to cause the issue.

And both you say that the police don't do that, nowadays stopping the ticketless well before the venue is standard police procedure for popular events.

[Arturo Bassick]

You are entitled to your view and it appears to be one of its all the fans fault. Regardless of whether you are right. Your view is one of the many ignorant people who feel the need to blame only the fans..

I do not want to blame anybody. This was a tragedy of circumstances but all I see is a bunch of Scousers determined to cleanse themselves and their mates of any responsibility and lay the whole sorry mess firmly at the door of the police.

[FiveTimes]

I do not want to blame anybody. This was a tragedy of circumstances but all I see is a bunch of Scousers determined to cleanse themselves and their mates of any responsibility and lay the whole sorry mess firmly at the door of the police.

Are you sure they are trying to lay blame - there has already been reports etc into who's fault it was and it was quite clear.

Is it right for the government ministers to pass false info to papers citing the fans ?

[Spacecadet]

Is it right for the government ministers to pass false info to papers citing the fans ?

Which minister was that?

[Arturo Bassick]

Are you sure they are trying to lay blame - there has already been reports etc into who's fault it was and it was quite clear.

Is it right for the government ministers to pass false info to papers citing the fans ?

If the fault is clear then why carry on pushing? Why not lay it to rest?
As I said before, any report and any enquiry will never be complete and will always be biased because it is impossible to hold internal enquiries into the behaviour of the fans. All the official bodies, Police, FA etc. will hold their own and will try and wash their hands of it or scape goat somebody.

[FiveTimes]

Which minister was that?

It will all come out with the release of the papers.

[eek]

I do not want to blame anybody. This was a tragedy of circumstances but all I see is a bunch of Scousers determined to cleanse themselves and their mates of any responsibility and lay the whole sorry mess firmly at the door of the police.

The problem is that they tried to create a distraction to try to avoid the blame. Now when colleagues or my children try and do that I want to know why and this is no different.