More on Air France

[TimberWolf]

Air France Crash Book Shows Transcript of Pilot Confusion - Businessweek
'Damn it, we're going to crash, it can't be true!': Terrified final words of pilot on doomed Air France jet | Mail Online

Looks like the experienced pilot knew they were falling:

Marc Dubois: 'No, No, No!… Don't go up!… No, No!'

[Troll]

Air France Crash Book Shows Transcript of Pilot Confusion - Businessweek
'Damn it, we're going to crash, it can't be true!': Terrified final words of pilot on doomed Air France jet | Mail Online

Looks like the experienced pilot knew they were falling:

been seeing a lot of comments recently that modern day pilots don't have enough old school flying skills but are now a days no more than joystick jockeys thanks to the introduction of fly by wire aircraft- all well and good until something goes wrong.

Still puzzled as to why the experienced captain didn't take over on his return though

[TimberWolf]

been seeing a lot of comments recently that modern day pilots don't have enough old school flying skills but are now a days no more than joystick jockeys thanks to the introduction of fly by wire aircraft- all well and good until something goes wrong.

Still puzzled as to why the experienced captain didn't take over on his return though

Makes you wonder how many actual flying hours pilots have, as opposed to sitting there with the plane controlling most stuff.

The captain returned to the flight deck in the last moments of the flight, but never resumed control.

Not how long 'last moments' is.

[wim121]

That's the french for you! Bunch of morons the lot of them ....

Goodness knows how qualified pilots could ever make such an error.

Ive never made that error and I havent even got my private license, just a bit of holding the stick in real life and flight simulators. I thought it was common knowledge even to retards, that if you enter a stall, you pitch your nose lower, remove flaps and increase power to increase airflow around the wing, hence increasing lift and halting the stall.

Honestly, what kind of brain dead moron would ever pull their nose up while stalling? Isnt as if he didnt have enough room either. Over the atlantic at 4,000? Even dropping fast, that is more than enough height to recover.




Air france has quite a bad safety record and I cant say im too keen on them. Not too keen on modern planes like the airbus either (although, at least I would get on one, would NEVER step foot on a dc9/dc10). The problem isnt so much the planes, but ground staff and pilots being stuck decades in the past and not familiar enough with the modern systems.

[Cliphead]

Honestly, what kind of brain dead moron would ever pull their nose up while stalling? Isnt as if he didnt have enough room either. Over the atlantic at 4,000? Even dropping fast, that is more than enough height to recover.

Partial instrumentation failure, no visual cues, inexperience and conflicting interpretation of what the instruments were reading could all contribute to such a mistake.

Without being trained for instrument flying try wearing a hood next time you get some stick time, shockingly easy to lose the plot when your inner ear is telling you one thing and the instruments another.

[northernladuk]

Without being trained for instrument flying try wearing a hood next time you get some stick time, shockingly easy to lose the plot when your inner ear is telling you one thing and the instruments another.

Very good point. I didn't really understand this until I did my night dive for PADI. Pitchblack underwater, spins you round and you have to do your basic checks and guess which way up you are. Virtually impossible. You stick your arm out convinced it is up and nearly break your finger on the sea bed.

Not quite the same but only example I can think of where complete disorientation makes you utterly useless at the things you take for granted.. i.e. pointing up let alone flying a plane.

[wim121]

Partial instrumentation failure, no visual cues, inexperience and conflicting interpretation of what the instruments were reading could all contribute to such a mistake.

Without being trained for instrument flying try wearing a hood next time you get some stick time, shockingly easy to lose the plot when your inner ear is telling you one thing and the instruments another.

Good point, planes have gone down before with instrument failure/petostatic tube blockages. There was one case where they taped up the tubes while cleaning, then the ground staff didnt remove them. The crew figured out the instruments were faulty, but they didnt stall or make any stupid errors. Unfortunately, they lost altitude gradually over the hours in a pitch black night and crashed in to the pacific.

However, pilots go through rigorous training to ignore misleading cues, such as instruments in some circumstances.

All they had to do when the stick did a shake indicating a stall is increase their throttle, even if their instinct is to incorrectly pitch up. The instruments may not indicate a stall but the throttle position and stick shake would point out otherwise. There is no excuse for that.

[Cliphead]

All they had to do when the stick did a shake indicating a stall is increase their throttle, even if their instinct is to incorrectly pitch up. The instruments may not indicate a stall but the throttle position and stick shake would point out otherwise. There is no excuse for that.

I haven't read the report but stick shake indicating a stall at a relatively low altitude say 4k feet would be near impossible to recover from. Jet engines take time to spool up to full power if the throttle levers are pushed to the wall, airspeed also has to build up and how fast that will happen is dependant not just on power but the aircraft atittude. Too little too late perhaps.

I would imagine that the conditions that caused the accident will be incorporated into training scenarios, not just the cockpit management and flying but the human factors as well. Hopefully such a situation will never arise again.

[sasguru]

That's the french for you! Bunch of morons the lot of them ....

Goodness knows how qualified pilots could ever make such an error.

Ive never made that error and I havent even got my private license, just a bit of holding the stick in real life and flight simulators. I thought it was common knowledge even to retards, that if you enter a stall, you pitch your nose lower, remove flaps and increase power to increase airflow around the wing, hence increasing lift and halting the stall.

Honestly, what kind of brain dead moron would ever pull their nose up while stalling? Isnt as if he didnt have enough room either. Over the atlantic at 4,000? Even dropping fast, that is more than enough height to recover.




Air france has quite a bad safety record and I cant say im too keen on them. Not too keen on modern planes like the airbus either (although, at least I would get on one, would NEVER step foot on a dc9/dc10). The problem isnt so much the planes, but ground staff and pilots being stuck decades in the past and not familiar enough with the modern systems.

You really are an ignorant, judgemental cock aren't you?
Fook, words fail me about what an absolute tosser you are.

[Cliphead]

You really are an ignorant, judgemental cock aren't you?
Fook, words fail me about what an absolute tosser you are.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sasguru again."