England V France

[shaunbhoy]

Getting back to rugby, not many people live in New Zealand either, and there's **** all else to do

ftfy

[Zoiderman]

ftfy

oh, the irony

[PAH]

It has always been in the interests of whoever organises the seedings to ensure as many large nations qualify as possible.

Must be right. Nothing else explains how England were ranked 4th recently (now more realistically dropped back to 8th), despite only a few quarter final appearances in the last decade.

FIFA.com - England: FIFA/Coca-Cola World Ranking

[Zoiderman]

Must be right. Nothing else explains how England were ranked 4th recently (now more realistically dropped back to 8th), despite only a few quarter final appearances in the last decade.

FIFA.com - England: FIFA/Coca-Cola World Ranking

and there being real reasons scotland have raced up to 52nd in the list up from a more realistic 66 in April...

[Doggy Styles]

I'd say that points more towards the players than anything else.

No, the problem is you can't serve two masters.

After their clubs have had them running about at 90mph training and playing non-stop for nine months, there's not much left in the tank for a summer tournament. It's significant that neither Torres or Fabragas played much for Spain when they won the world cup.

We used to say the same about cricket and rugby, but 10 years ago or so both those sports started to contract the players directly to the national team, controlling when and where they trained and played, which brought great improvements to both. However, football cannot match the players club salaries, so cannot do this.

Same has happened to Wales, yet they've had several players in recent times that chose Wales over England.

Don't you think that's because they knew they wouldn't get picked for England?

[Zoiderman]

No, the problem is you can't serve two masters.

After their clubs have had them running about at 90mph training and playing non-stop for nine months, there's not much left in the tank for a summer tournament. It's significant that neither Torres or Fabragas played much for Spain when they won the world cup.

We used to say the same about cricket and rugby, but 10 years ago or so both those sports started to contract the players directly to the national team, controlling when and where they trained and played, which brought great improvements to both. However, football cannot match the players club salaries, so cannot do this.
Don't you think that's because they knew they wouldn't get picked for England?

Would have been nice to have Giggs for a few years, and now Bale. Probably why Giggs has played so long for Utd, without all those summer tournaments to go to..

But with the other players, it's a very valid point.

[Incognito]

I know, what with all them finals they win, or make, or even qualify for, or even get seeded for qualification.

I'd check the make up of Team GB by the way...

I suppose it depends upon your definition of achievement. There's no question that you have a better rugby, football and cricket team than us (at present). However considering you have 10 times the population pool to pick from, you should consistently be ten times the better team than us across most sports. Considering the FIFA rankings in football that's not reflected in current standings. I'll give you cricket though (consistently).

Take the Welsh rugby team as an example, making the Semis is an achievement in its own for a nation the size of Wales. Punching above their weight, feasting from the big boys table, however you want to dress it up they are overachieving and when you compare that to MJ's team, then England have surely underperformed, as did the Scots (this RWC).

As for Team GB, 311 competitors at Beijing of which 31 of them were Scots. Considering we make up ~8% of GB population, we've supplied ~10% of the team.

That's an achievement in itself for a nation our size. We'll never be world beaters. Now that argument shouldn't hold sway for the English. You should be world beaters, you certainly have the talent. As people have said though, perhaps certain sports stars don't think it's that important, they'd rather be on their seven figure club salary than their five figure winners bonus.

[Doggy Styles]

That 'bigger population' thing is a slight red herring. If that were the case, China and India would lead the world in most sports, USA and Russia would be contesting the rugby world cup final, and New Zealand and Wales would be out in the group stages.

The fact is, all populations have a similar percentage of good potential athletes, but England (and Scotland) spread theirs across too many different sports. On the other hand, most of NZ's athletic men are concentrated in rugby union, as are the Welsh.

Perhaps Scotland should do the same, although I don't know which sport they should choose.

[Mich the Tester]

Rugby operations director Rob Andrew said: "The key thing from my point of view is that we take the next four to six weeks with Martin and review what has gone on. The important thing is we reflect and make a decision going forward."

On the basis of having uttered the last two words I declare Rob Andrew a prat who should be fired.

[oracleslave]

On the basis of having uttered the last two words I declare Rob Andrew a prat who should be fired.

He's got that smarmy salesman type thing about him as well which doesn't help his case. I think there is a case to be made for plenty of RFU heads to roll and he is one of them. I'd fire Martin Johnson and most of his back-room staff too. Pieter De Villiers is available