I worry for Euroland ...

[sasguru]

... historically they have not been as stable as we are, temperamentally, economically and politically. There is an instinctive reaching out for strong-man far-right solutions when times get hard.
The next 10 years are going to be hard everywhere, but if history is to be a guide, I'd rather live in good Blighty than anywhere on the continent.

[TimberWolf]

So what would the citizens of impoverished EU states do? Come here in even bigger droves? Surely we would collapse under the weight of arrivals too.

[PAH]

How's the pound holding up against the euro?

[sasguru]

How's the pound holding up against the euro?

What's that got to do with anything?

[PAH]

What's that got to do with anything?

No idea.

[sasguru]

No idea.

Quite.

[TimberWolf]

The list of countries by GDP makes interesting reading. The sheer scale of the US economy (top) towering over China next. Japan's is still huge, Germany, UK and France about the same...Italy's about the same size as India's. Spain the size of Russia's and Australia's...Netherlands, now we're into the second division, Switzerland even less...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._%28nominal%29

[Paddy]

... historically they have not been as stable as we are, temperamentally, economically and politically. There is an instinctive reaching out for strong-man far-right solutions when times get hard.
The next 10 years are going to be hard everywhere, but if history is to be a guide, I'd rather live in good Blighty than anywhere on the continent.

I have been going to Europe off and on for 50 odd years and I first worked in Europe in 1972 at which time there was 7 DMs to the pound and the cost of petrol in Switzerland was half the cost of the UK. During that time, each time I hear that Europe is in a mess and worse off than the UK; it always turns out the opposite and it's the poor old Blighty folk who are suffering. A recession in Germany is like a Boom in the UK. Even poor old Portugal that received massive amounts of Euro Aid; majority of people seem to have a far more disposable income than the people in the UK.

[DodgyAgent]

I have been going to Europe off and on for 50 odd years and I first worked in Europe in 1972 at which time there was 7 DMs to the pound and the cost of petrol in Switzerland was half the cost of the UK. During that time, each time I hear that Europe is in a mess and worse off than the UK; it always turns out the opposite and it's the poor old Blighty folk who are suffering. A recession in Germany is like a Boom in the UK. Even poor old Portugal that received massive amounts of Euro Aid; majority of people seem to have a far more disposable income than the people in the UK.

Especially the Italians who all live with their mums (a bit like IT contractors )

[sasguru]

I have been going to Europe off and on for 50 odd years and I first worked in Europe in 1972 at which time there was 7 DMs to the pound and the cost of petrol in Switzerland was half the cost of the UK. During that time, each time I hear that Europe is in a mess and worse off than the UK; it always turns out the opposite and it's the poor old Blighty folk who are suffering. A recession in Germany is like a Boom in the UK. Even poor old Portugal that received massive amounts of Euro Aid; majority of people seem to have a far more disposable income than the people in the UK.

Europeans have hocked themselves into debt over the years to live well. Look at Germany's government debt now. 83% as a % of GDP I believe.
Until Labour got in in 1997 and made us more like Europe, we were doing much better in terms of living within our means .
In the late 90s government debt was the lowest of the major European economies, private pension provision was the envy of Europe, the books were reasonable balanced.
Labour came in and said lets spend more and be more like Europe and let rip a credit boom that has laid us low.


But all this is missing the point: which is that when times get bad, the British muddle through, but the Eurolanders reach for far-right and authoritarian solutions.
At least this has been the case historically,