Getting fit, when do you start to feel better?

[TimberWolf]

About a pound to 2 pounds a month is possible without steroids, but it involves spending a lot of time in the gym training to muscle failure and eating a lot.

But genetics plays a huge role; if you're geneticaly predisposed to building muscle mass than you'll get heavier more quickly than those who aren't.

Are you referring to women here? I'd need a citation to believe that for women, without the steroid use and not hormonal outliers. Just normal women.

[Old Greg]

I wonder how many calories looting uses up. It would be good to see a Health Economics analysis of whether the health gains made by a few evenings of brisk exercise equate to long-term savings in healthcare expenditure equivalent to the cost of the damage cause by looting.

[Mich the Tester]

Are you referring to women here? I'd need a citation to believe that for women, without the steroid use and not hormonal outliers. Just normal women.

Yep, but they'd need genetics, the right training and the right diet. Top athletes are arguably not particularly 'normal' anyway.

As well, there's a limit known as the 'physiological limit', which is personal, and beyond which you simply can't get; every motor unit is activated, every muscle fibre is developed to its full potential and you simply won't get any further. However, only a few body builders or top athletes will ever get close to reaching that limit.

[TimberWolf]

Yep, but they'd need genetics, the right training and the right diet. Top athletes are arguably not particularly 'normal' anyway.

As well, there's a limit known as the 'physiological limit', which is personal, and beyond which you simply can't get; every motor unit is activated, every muscle fibre is developed to its full potential and you simply won't get any further. However, only a few body builders or top athletes will ever get close to reaching that limit.

Just had a quick look on Google Scholar, but didn't find anything related to speed of muscle mass gains for women. I expect the average woman could expect to gain a bit of muscle in the early weeks (pounds) of training but this would be small potatoes compared to the mass of fat they'd like to lose (stones).

[Mich the Tester]

Just had a quick look on Google Scholar, but didn't find anything related to speed of muscle mass gains for women. I expect the average woman could expect to gain a bit of muscle in the early weeks (pounds) of training but this would be small potatoes compared to the mass of fat they'd like to lose (stones).

You won't gain muscle mass in the first 6 to 8 weeks assuming you're starting training; all that happens is that inactive motor units (nerve ending plus muscle fibre) become active; any mass gain is simply 'tone', as the muscles become engorged with fluid. After the first couple of months, depending on the type of training, the muscle fibres start to get thicker (hypertrophy) in reponse to training. There is no evidence of humans growing new muscle fibres as a result of training (hyperplasia), although it does seem to happen in rats.

What I'm suggesting is what is possible if the training is hypertrophy specific and combined with the right regime of rest and diet. After the first year or so, the rate of hypertrophy will fall markedly, a bit like the law of diminishing returns. That's why bodybuilders have to spend ages in the gym, take supplements and often use nasty substances.

As well, if you're making significant gains in muscular strength, at some stage you might go so far that your tendons, ligaments and bones can't keep up; they get stronger, but much more slowly and are vulnerable to injury if the muscular strength increases too quickly.

[lukemg]

Had a few breaks from exercise, months at a time, does take a good while to get back to a decent level. In addition as I am mid 40's, I seem to be in a constant state of carrying niggles and little injuries while playing footy 3 x 1hour a week, game of golf etc. Achilles is suffering tendonitis or similar, hip sore, knees creaking.
I hope that the general effect on my health is worth these symptoms !
Also be very careful about eating up to your new regime, done a walk, I can have a biscuit etc It's ALL about calorie intake, amount of exercise needed to shift a Mars etc is frightening, especially walking !!
Try to put some muscle on too, helps with tone and makes your body use more energy just getting about. For women, forget about getting too muscley, it will never happen short of you giving up work and employing a professional trainer full-time...

[Mich the Tester]

Try to put some muscle on too, helps with tone and makes your body use more energy just getting about. For women, forget about getting too muscley, it will never happen short of you giving up work and employing a professional trainer full-time...

whs

If you want a car to burn more fuel, you can push the gas pedal in. However, you can also fit a V8 5 litre engine, and even going slowly you'll burn a lot of fuel.

Most people could actually gain about 15lbs of muscle mass without becoming overly 'big', as long as that's distributed over your whole body.

[Mich the Tester]

Had a few breaks from exercise, months at a time, does take a good while to get back to a decent level. In addition as I am mid 40's, I seem to be in a constant state of carrying niggles and little injuries while playing footy 3 x 1hour a week, game of golf etc. Achilles is suffering tendonitis or similar, ...

Get that looked at by a sports doctor or orthopaedic specialist, not just a GP. If it gets worse it can lead to a torn tendon, which is a bugger of an injury.

[TimberWolf]

You won't gain muscle mass in the first 6 to 8 weeks assuming you're starting training; all that happens is that inactive motor units (nerve ending plus muscle fibre) become active; any mass gain is simply 'tone', as the muscles become engorged with fluid. After the first couple of months, depending on the type of training, the muscle fibres start to get thicker (hypertrophy) in reponse to training. There is no evidence of humans growing new muscle fibres as a result of training (hyperplasia), although it does seem to happen in rats.

What I'm suggesting is what is possible if the training is hypertrophy specific and combined with the right regime of rest and diet. After the first year or so, the rate of hypertrophy will fall markedly, a bit like the law of diminishing returns. That's why bodybuilders have to spend ages in the gym, take supplements and often use nasty substances.

As well, if you're making significant gains in muscular strength, at some stage you might go so far that your tendons, ligaments and bones can't keep up; they get stronger, but much more slowly and are vulnerable to injury if the muscular strength increases too quickly.

I disagree Mitch. I think the fastest muscle gains would be seen in the first few weeks of a training regime, after which it's a law of diminishing returns, notwithstanding many dips and bumps. Especially notable gains (10s of pounds in weeks) can also be seen in people, especially men, that were once muscular and returned to heavy training. So called 'muscle memory'; similarly with atrophied muscle. There may be 'fat memory' too!

[Mich the Tester]

I disagree Mitch. I think the fastest muscle gains would be seen in the first few weeks of a training regime, after which it's a law of diminishing returns, notwithstanding many dips and bumps. Especially notable gains (10s of pounds in weeks) can also be seen in people, especially men, that were once muscular and returned to heavy training. So called 'muscle memory'; similarly with atrophied muscle. There may be 'fat memory' too!

But those people to whom you refer might have had muscle atrophy, but their motor units are re-activated very quickly, so their muscle fibres start on the hypertrophy much more quickly. I had the same thing after I missed a couple of years of rugby, rather stupidly chasing one of those delusions called a 'career'; got on a rowing machine and within a couple of weeks I was changing shape. It's simply that you don't lose the strength very quickly; you lose it at about the same rate you built it, and if you'd spent 20 years training before the break you don't lose all that in 2 years. My father is now in his 60s and still runs out for Old Wobblebellians 5th XV each week; his upper body strength is still very impressive despite doing very little training, but of course he trained hard for both rugby and athletics from age 7 to 40. He still tackles large men as if he's an All Black flanker in a bad mood. Just a shame he can't always catch them these days.