Degree ? Waste Of Time

**Denny** · 30 March 2006, 16:14

Originally posted by lukemg

What a complete waste of time, money and effort getting a degree is these days. Even when I graduated 15 years ago it actually meant something to have a degree but I am now hiring for a basic support job paying 18k and everyone applying has comp science or another degree and a couple of years experience.
Unless you have a decent degree from a top Uni, don't even waste your time. When my son is older I will be steering him towards useful trade skills that can be scaled into a business. Thousands signed up for IT courses on the back of a supposed boom during the late 90's and are now scratching around looking for dog basic IT work on helpdesks etc. No wonder the @rse dropped out of the job market. Thank god I have jumped on the Service Delivery escalator.

There are a lot of second or third rate degrees obtainable by the less than academically inclined, usually offered by old Polyversities. They probably are a waste of time unless they are geared toward a particular business-related specialism like law or business studies. Effectively they are just training courses. I wouldn't bother doing history at one though unless you want to teach history.

I disagree with you about degree courses in general being a waste of time. I've got a first and master degree from a premier league university (LSE) and I've never regretted it for a minute despite my time at uni costing me in real terms well over £60K in fees and lost income. I could have done an OU whilst still working but I wanted to experience what it was like being a full time student and soak up the entire student experience not just do the studying.

A degree is worth a lot more than just a passport to the best jobs, they also give you self-knowledge, discipline, lifelong confidence and a thirst for knowledge. Having spent all my 20s not having a higher education, or even A levels for the most part, I speak with authority on this matter, probably more so than hearing it from someone who went onto higher education at 18. Not everything worth having in life needs to be geared to guaranteeing a financial return, you know!

Mind you, I did my degrees when maintenance grants and mature student allowances were still available rather than loans otherwise I would have had to shelve the idea or choose to do an OU course instead (which, incidentally, are very good).

**madhippy** · 30 March 2006, 16:23

Originally posted by Denny

... they also give you self-knowledge, discipline, lifelong confidence and a thirst for knowledge....

I've always wondered about these supposed 'soft' benefits of doing a degree ... I reckon 3 years of doing a job (any job) will get you at least some of the same if not more of these other experiences/benefits etc. ...

I went to uni at 18 ... hated the course (physics/astrophysics) ... I'd recommend to anyone that asked not to go at 18 ... get a job ... piss about a bit .. then perhaps go at 21 ... better idea of what you want to do, some cash in the bank etc... (perhaps do some night classes to keep in the educational frame of mind)

**The Lone Gunman** · 30 March 2006, 16:30

Maybe my experience will change your mind, then again......

I left school when I was 16. Went to college and did a BTEC Diploma in telecoms.
Didnt do too well but that is another story.
worked for a number of years in various hardware roles.
Eventualy landed at a firm that was bought out by Apricot, who didnt need the hardware staff. My boss at the time offered to teach me programming which I accepted. I discovered I have a talent for software and enjoy the software engineering process.
3 years later and the company is laying off. As I am not qualified I am one of the first out the door.
Looking for work I find I have been away from hardware for too long and I am not qualified in Software. Cant get work.

Bit the bullet. Went to Uni in 92, graduated in Software Engineering in 95 did a couple of experience gaining jobs then went freelance in 98, never looked back.

Without the degree no one would have looked twice at my CV.

**Jabberwocky** · 30 March 2006, 16:39

Degrees are pretty much a waste of time for me at least - I have four - worse than useless, they actually stop me getting contracts.

**Fungus** · 30 March 2006, 16:47

I've often wondered about the value of a degree. I got a good degree in Physics from a good university, and I find that it has helped me get contracts. I think it gives them confidence that I will be good at solving tough problems. But I have noticed that in general a degree seems to be of little value. One of the best engineers I've known has no degree, and another very good one has a third from a Poly. And one of the worst had a first from Bristol in Computing and needlework (or something like that). In fact among the contractors that I know, most seem to have modest qualifications.

I think the problem with a degree is that it only tests part of your skills. It determines how good you are at doing a task once you are given the required information. It does not test how good you are at identifying which task to do, and gathering the required information. So you could have zero initiative and still do well.

These days you might be better off leaving school at 18, working for a year on low rates, and then working your way up. I'm not sure I would have done a degree given the debt involved: I did mine when it was free.

**Churchill** · 30 March 2006, 16:48

Originally posted by Jabberwocky

Degrees are pretty much a waste of time for me at least - I have four - worse than useless, they actually stop me getting contracts.

You're not bright enough to omit them from your Cv then?

******!

**VectraMan** · 30 March 2006, 16:50

Funnily enough 14 years since I graduated I'm now finding my degree seems to count for something as there's several contract jobs being advertised that say "computing or mathematics degree", or worse "1st or 2.1 degree" (which I don't have). I'm certain I would have learned more in 3 years real experience than 3 years learning academic crap, but I think employers and clients will always look at degrees, not because they prove anything, but because doing a degree is the norm for anyone who is intelligent and capable.

I've interviewed loads of graduates, and employed a few, and the good ones that got the jobs were people who'd done significant development work on their software projects and could demonstrate a real understanding. I'd be suspiscious of anyone with a first as I'd think they were only good at the academic stuff, and no good in the real world.

**Fungus** · 30 March 2006, 16:51

Originally posted by Churchill

You're not bright enough to omit them from your Cv then?

******!

Told you so. A degree does not measure initiative.

**sasguru** · 30 March 2006, 16:56

Originally posted by Jabberwocky

Degrees are pretty much a waste of time for me at least - I have four - worse than useless, they actually stop me getting contracts.

KnobJockey, stop dreaming. You'll have to pass your GSCEs first.

Degree ? Waste Of Time