Gordo's insidius reach (oh, did I spell that right?:)

[John Galt]

John Galt: Yes, but the young of poor families are strictly limited to the number of goes they can have, generally one each. Whereas the rich can afford to bail the children out multiple times. Again, if you want to throw a six, being allowed to do it as many times as required is an advantage.

And as to the personal attack, no, I come from a very wealthy family, which I know is why I'm so successful without even having to try. I'm just trying to be realistic. I can see the artificial barriers put up to people from other backgrounds.

Nope, sorry not convinced. Are you sure you did not have to try to succeed? Are you sure it was all handed to you on a plate? I agree that there is less chance of people from poorer backgrounds being extemely financially succesfull but, and it is a big but, if you take someone with ambition from a poor background and someone from a rich background with no ambition which one is more likely to have greater personal success.

I can see your point but I get really fed up with hearing all the excuses that are made for people today. It seems as though the underclasses take pride in having no ambition and that a career in scrounging is someting to be encouraged. It follows that anyone deviating from this pattern is unlikely to be accepted by their peers and therefore less likely to succeed. However, it does not mean that poverty has stopped them improving their lot, it is merely the product of a socialist Government that wants to bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

[Mailman]

Basically, soon to be, King Charles III was right when he said people today expect too many things to be given to them and they dont work hard enough to earn anything. You remember...this was the comments old Charlie was rediculed for in the media...even though the bugger was right!

Mailman

[threaded]

But it does not help that the system is constantly being tinkered with to make it harder and harder for those in the lower social orders to raise up them.

I think there was more social mobility in the time of Charles 1 than there will be in Charles 3

[John Galt]

But it does not help that the system is constantly being tinkered with to make it harder and harder for those in the lower social orders to raise up them.

I think there was more social mobility in the time of Charles 1 than there will be in Charles 3

But those in the lower social classes are all too ready to accept it aren't they? Individuals have to take responsibility for their own actions and for their own futures. If you do nothing you can't complain when you get nothing.

[NoddY]

Work doesn't pay

But those in the lower social classes are all too ready to accept it aren't they? Individuals have to take responsibility for their own actions and for their own futures. If you do nothing you can't complain when you get nothing.

I agree that in a perfect world we should enjoy the fruits of our labour. But this is not what is happening; those fruits are getting smaller.

The amount of money required to purchase a meaningful asset has increased dramatically. This means the value of labour is diminishing (labour inflation you like). This is highlighted by the fact that it takes more labour hours to obtain less assets - reflected by the requirement of two incomes to mortgage an average house. Even then it's likely 90% is owned by the bank (banks, by the way, merely create money from thin air through the 'miracle' of fractional-reserve banking; thus you are going out to work to pay interest on money that never really existed).

In fact, work offers most people so little in return that it needs to be subsidised by the State in the form of benefits and tax credits (5.7 million claimants)

What I'm trying to say is that work doesn't pay. It's obvious when you think about it. Globalisation means the amalgamation of the world labour force into one big pot. The world is oversupplied with labour so the price of that labour will go down. Thus, only those who are not forced to sell their labour are immune and can continue to consolidate their assets.

[John Galt]

Noddy, don't you think that the problem has been exacerbated by the fact that we don't make anything? If you have no manufacturing industry you have no hope of creating real sustainable wealth. A country that relies on service industries is really just moving round an ever decreasing pile of cash.

[eternalnomad]

Noddy, don't you think that the problem has been exacerbated by the fact that we don't make anything? If you have no manufacturing industry you have no hope of creating real sustainable wealth. A country that relies on service industries is really just moving round an ever decreasing pile of cash.

and a country that encourages the offshoring of what service industry it had its well and truly ferked.

On a more "positive" note, after a very painful 20-30 years of mass unemployment, riots in the streets and people routinely dying of starvation I predict that the labour costs base of the UK will have reduced enough (and those of BRIC countries increased substantially) that it makes economical sense to manufacture things here again.

By that time however, the red-tape involved in starting new manufacturing companies will be so bad that the capital investment will simply not flow to these shores.

The futures bright - the futures not in the UK

[xoggoth]

If something is on offer for nothing, human nature, not to say common sense, would say "take it". Those capable of work have to be forced to; I don't mean by some Stalinist labour law, I mean by the law of necessity.

Short term support is part of what national "insurance" should mean but for the longer term we need to apply the principle "You don't work you don't eat"

[Fungus]

It is curious that under New Lier the proportion of university students coming from poorer backgrounds has gone down. Surely a university education is one of the best ways to increase social mobility.

Or maybe not. Much easier to bring us all down to the same level, and reduce incentives to work.

Anyway, these days it seems that many employers are avoiding graduates as their basic skills are so low.

As for death duties, it's typical "I want what you've got but I can't be arsed to work for it" class war Socialism. The idea that your kin have no more right to your estate than the government is ludicrous. Unless you think we are little more than battery hens in a state controlled collective.

[TwoWolves]

... Unless you think we are little more than battery hens in a state controlled collective.

Sadly, coming to a life your way soon.