Originally posted by John Galt
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Gordo's insidius reach (oh, did I spell that right?:)
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Originally posted by The Lone GunmanOf course its unfair, it is just that it is an acceptable and socialy conscious [spelling] method of Government raising revenue.
You are asking someone to pay more for the same service than soemone else, in fact as the benefit systems tends to support the poor, then the rich are paying for the services provided to the poor.
Do you think it would be fair for sainsburys to charge you more for your groceries than an unemployed person?
It all depends on your view point.
No to Sainsbury's, because it is simply a payment for purchase.
You are falling into the economics fallacy, where everything is considered simply as a purchase, with the buyer attempting to minimise the price. This is a serious point, and a very serious flaw in both logic and character often shown by people on this board.Comment
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Originally posted by expatI disagree. Taxes are not payment for services, so there is not such a thing as "fairness" being the same "price" for everone. Taxes are a contribution rather than an exchange of payment.
No to Sainsbury's, because it is simply a payment for purchase.
You are falling into the economics fallacy, where everything is considered simply as a purchase, with the buyer attempting to minimise the price. This is a serious point, and a very serious flaw in both logic and character often shown by people on this board.
I do see it as unfair, but mostly that is an acceptable compromise.
Who says that taxes shouldnt be regarded as a provision of service? It depends on your political leanings. The further left you go the more service is provide to the less well off at the cost of the better off. The further right you go you see less services and reduced cost.
Why shouldnt tax be the same price for everyone?
How can it be fair that the better off you become, the more you pay into a system that is less and less beneficial to you?I am not qualified to give the above advice!
The original point and click interface by
Smith and Wesson.
Step back, have a think and adjust my own own attitude from time to timeComment
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Originally posted by expatThat - progressive taxation - is normally regarded as fairer than, for example, level taxation. Now, I'm not personally arguing that it is fairer, but I do not see that it is self-evidently unfair.
So yes, for you "what I do object to is having to hand over a much greater percentage of my earnings than others". I understand that you object to it. But do you thnk it is unfair, and if so, why? Because you object to it?Comment
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Originally posted by John GaltWell working on that premise then the only succesful businessmen in this country would be the product of rich parents? Do you honestly believe that the only entrepeneurs in the world were rich to start with? I am seriously beginning to wonder if this is a wind up Threaded
No, not a wind up, but one should face realities and not pillory the poor for lack of get up and go, because many do have it, and as a percentage probably more than the rich, which makes the outcome of the game so sad as unfortunately the system is stacked against them.Insanity: repeating the same actions, but expecting different results.
threadeds website, and here's my blog.Comment
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Originally posted by threadedNearly, I am saying that to be a successful businessman in the UK you almost certainly need rich parents, marry into a rich family etc., and yes, most entrepreneurs in the world were rich to start with.
No, not a wind up, but one should face realities and not pillory the poor for lack of get up and go, because many do have it, and as a percentage probably more than the rich, which makes the outcome of the game so sad as unfortunately the system is stacked against them.
Even the reasonably affluent will often be in a position where they are sinking absolutely everything they own - and more - into quite modest projects. Should it go tits up then they are totally screwed. It is absoluterly all or nothing, this often screws up the risk/reward ratios beyond sense.Comment
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Originally posted by threadedNearly, I am saying that to be a successful businessman in the UK you almost certainly need rich parents, marry into a rich family etc., and yes, most entrepreneurs in the world were rich to start with.
No, not a wind up, but one should face realities and not pillory the poor for lack of get up and go, because many do have it, and as a percentage probably more than the rich, which makes the outcome of the game so sad as unfortunately the system is stacked against them.
For example you might expect family run businesses to thrive with time. But in practice family owned businesses that remain family controlled do not do well, once the original founder goes. That is because the sprogs usually have no flair for business. Ones that do well maintain ownership, but bring in ourside control.
I do agree that it is easier to succeed from a wealthy background though not necessarily rich. If when at university, or soon after, you can take risks, take a year out, play around at developing a new idea, without having to worry about where/how you will live/sleep/eat if it goes pear shaped, then you are more likely to do well in business. If on the other hand you are fighting to survive (as I was) then you have little chance.
This is certainly true of Branson, Gates, Wozniak and Jobs, all of whom were from comfy middle class backgrounds. I think Amstrad was from a modest background.Comment
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Originally posted by expatThat - progressive taxation - is normally regarded as fairer than, for example, level taxation. Now, I'm not personally arguing that it is fairer, but I do not see that it is self-evidently unfair.
So yes, for you "what I do object to is having to hand over a much greater percentage of my earnings than others". I understand that you object to it. But do you thnk it is unfair, and if so, why? Because you object to it?Comment
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Originally posted by threadedNearly, I am saying that to be a successful businessman in the UK you almost certainly need rich parents, marry into a rich family etc., and yes, most entrepreneurs in the world were rich to start with.
No, not a wind up, but one should face realities and not pillory the poor for lack of get up and go, because many do have it, and as a percentage probably more than the rich, which makes the outcome of the game so sad as unfortunately the system is stacked against them.
I will agree (otherwise we could go on forever) that there is a greater chance of financial success if you come from a wealthy background. However, coming from a poor background may reduce that chance it does not negate it.Comment
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