UK today.

[Antman]

But Noddy, What are you actually doing about these things?

[AlfredJPruffock]

Buelletproof Heart

Some say this is a dangerous place
Dangerous Women Lipstick Face

Men dissapear without a trace
Stay anonmyous hide your face

When I first came here
I was innocent
Soon found out what trouble meant

Now I regret the Time I spent
In your Towerblocks and Tenements

Dont Open the door
They want to settle the score
Dont Open your Door

IN this town you need
A Bulletproof Heart

IN this town
you need a shatterproof Heart

[VectraMan]

"15 miles of single lane 40 mph coned off M20 with of course no roadworks of any kind actually going on"

Was there a planned strike at the French ports? They often use the M20 for 'Operation Stack' don't they?

No this really was roadworks. Last Easter I think I'm thinking of.

I think the general problem is we're a pessimistic bunch, and we don't do the sorts of things needed to make us feel better about ourselves. You can argue that litter isn't as big a priority for public spending as education and health, but although there might not be any immediate benefit cleaner streets and a nicer environment just makes everybody's quality of life that bit better and that has an overall effect, on work, on health, on the economy on everything.

It's like the way most great British inventions seem to go abroad. The government should be offering every tax break and incentive it can to anyone with a hint of a business idea, as business is good, and jobs are good, and the long term gains of a more successful economy outweigh the short term losses. But nobody sees it that way.

So where's good?

[Bagpuss]

FFS the guys only been gone since 03. New Zealand is cleaner, so? it has a fraction of the population (around 4 million?) for a similar land mass!

If the Uk had 1/15 of the population it has I guess it would look a lot more tidy!

[zathras]

And the prison mentality. More CCTV cameras per head than any other country in the world.

25% of the World's CCTV Cameras are in the UK

(so if that is the case how come the only ones covering Stockwell Tube were not working!)

[expat]

So where's good?

The author of the original post on the other site was on a return visit from NZ. My sister has just emigrated there. I alas am too old to do that.

But why not in the UK? There must be places where people care about their surroundings and the people around them, and where perhaps the influence of the State pervades a litlle less. Assuming that you or I are like that, and that we want to live among people like ourselves.

[expat]

FFS the guys only been gone since 03. New Zealand is cleaner, so? it has a fraction of the population (around 4 million?) for a similar land mass!

If the Uk had 1/15 of the population it has I guess it would look a lot more tidy!

And the UK's plan for population is...? Oh yes, encourage more, in order to to postpone the pensions timebomb.

[sasguru]

We're all doomed, I tell yer!

[meridian]

FFS the guys only been gone since 03. New Zealand is cleaner, so? it has a fraction of the population (around 4 million?) for a similar land mass!

If the Uk had 1/15 of the population it has I guess it would look a lot more tidy!

Kiwis are indoctrinated from birth to keep their country tidy. Ads are constantly on television and radio extolling the virtues of picking up your litter and "Be a Tidy Kiwi".

Over Christmas patrols were out on the streets and beaches, not just handing out fines to people littering but giving away vouchers and free goodies for people who picked up their litter and took it with them.

[DaveB]

We're all doomed, I tell yer!

Doomed! Doomed!