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Question for Audiophiles

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    #11
    Originally posted by chef View Post
    essentially what i don't know is which component has the biggest impact on the the sound you hear, obviosuly all have a part but what has the biggest effect?
    -the original component i.e the HTPC and therefore the sound quality this sends
    -the receiver, which could then either be the preamp part or the power amp and would adding the valve power amp while still using my receiver as a preamp make so much of a difference
    -the speakers

    I look forward to your well informed techy responses.
    The biggest impact is probably the one thing you have overlooked, which is the room acoustics. An ideal listening environment has a fairly short reverberation time that is even across the fequency spectrum and perhaps slightly longer at low frequencies. Recording studios and suchlike go to great lengths to achieve this by carefully choosing room dimensions and applying acoustic absorption and diffusion treatment, sometimes even going so far as to avoid having the walls and floor / ceiling parallel.

    A typical domestic room has hard brick or concrete parallel walls and floor resulting in a lot of reflected sound and prominent standing waves at frequencies that correspond to the dimensions of the room. The end result is that detail is masked by other acoustic energy bouncing around the room in the form of reverb. Normally this can be heard as uneven bass response (play a scale on a bass and some notes will be much louder than others) and a sort of ringing "flutter echo" at higher frequencies. Clap your hands in a particularly bad room and the echo will sound like a sort of springy "boing" sound. There isn't a great deal you can do about LF room modes in a domestic environment but carpet, rugs, soft furnishings, heavy curtains and strategically positioned bookshelves will all have an effect on reducing the amount of reflected energy at higher frequencies.

    Another factor is speaker placement. Depending on how they are set up you are likely listening to them off-axis, which will affect the sound and stereo imaging greatly, and another factor often overlooked is how close they are to you. This affects the ratio of direct to reflected sound that you are listening to, the more reflected sound you have the more clouded the sound will be. Think about the limiting case, i.e. having the speakers in another room altogether, it won't sound great.

    As regards components, it will all make a difference.

    The source is obviously important. Low bitrate mp3s are less than ideal, lossless formats are the way to go if possible (of course if you only have an mp3 then keep it like that, transcoding will never bring back what has been thrown away).

    The next important link in the chain is the Digital-Analogue converter (i.e. PC soundcard). To build a good one takes a bit of attention to details such as clocking and grounding, you can definitely improve on the one on your motherboard. You probably won't notice the difference between a good DAC and very good DAC though, the good ones are better than most people's ears these days. Some links to drool over:

    DA-2 Home Page
    Weiss :: DAC1 & DAC1-MK2
    Lavry Engineering - Unsurpassed Excellence - the DA11 is supposed to be very good
    DAC1 HDR | Benchmark Media
    MYTEK DIGITAL USA

    Personally I don't agree with the audiophile assertion that less electrical components are automatically better. Any recorded music has already been through hundreds or thousands of them before it hit the shops. By all means avoid equalizers and other things that are designed to purposely alter the sound but when they start on about the negative feedback in amps ruining the sound they are in fruitloop territory. I've built single transistor pure class A amplifiers and they do not sound good!

    Valve amps have a distinctive "warm" sound, this is often attributed to differences in the character of the distortion they introduce (i.e. 2nd harmonic rather than 3rd, more biased towards low harmonics). It is entirely possible to build a tulip one, also to build one with effectively inaudible distortion. I have no doubt the good ones sound very good indeed but don't know much about them, for reasons that will become clear.

    Personally I am a great believer in active loudspeakers, which use an active line level crossover before the amp and separate power amps for each frequency band. The crossover and power amps are usually matched to the speakers and built into the cabinets. There is a reason why an awful lot of professional audio monitoring systems take this approach i.e. from an engineering perspective it's a better solution that avoids a lot of problems e.g.
    • the sorts of components you need to use to build a passive crossover that can handle high power have inherently poor tolerances which means to do a good job you need to spend a lot of effort matching components. Even then, the end product will almost certainly perform less well than £10 worth of op-amps and low power high tolerance resistors and caps.
    • the electrolytic capacitors will degrade over time.
    • the passive crossover will have a freaky variation of impedance with frequency that will cause all sorts of strange interactions with you amp (this is IMO the main reason hifi buffs like to fanny about trying different combos of amp + speakers)
    • it's a lot easier to build a good enough amp when you don't have to drive a complex load like a passive crossover


    That's not to say you can't build a good passive loudspeaker, just that you are going to spend a lot of money on it. I hear these guys do a pretty good job though.

    That is my techy answer
    Last edited by doodab; 4 May 2011, 14:44.
    While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story about a guy named 'Manual.'

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      #12
      Originally posted by doodab View Post
      Personally I am a great believer in active loudspeakers
      I agree.

      Had a pair of Quad Electrostatics years ago and they were simply awesome...

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        #13
        Of course, you might want to remember that the last link in this audio extravaganza, your ears, is something that will depreciate with age regardless. You can concoct the best system in the world, but if your ears are shot then it will all be a waste of time and money.
        “The period of the disintegration of the European Union has begun. And the first vessel to have departed is Britain”

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          #14
          Improve your audio experience with this

          HTH

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            #15
            Originally posted by shaunbhoy View Post
            Of course, you might want to remember that the last link in this audio extravaganza, your ears, is something that will depreciate with age regardless. You can concoct the best system in the world, but if your ears are shot then it will all be a waste of time and money.
            Pardon?

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              #16
              Originally posted by shaunbhoy View Post
              Of course, you might want to remember that the last link in this audio extravaganza, your ears, is something that will depreciate with age regardless. You can concoct the best system in the world, but if your ears are shot then it will all be a waste of time and money.
              point well made but in the space of a few days from being on holiday listening to a fantastic system and coming home and hearing my own system I doubt much has happened to my hearing
              The proud owner of 125 Xeno Geek Points

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                #17
                Something else I forgot to mention is that an awful lot of modern recordings sound tulip because they are mastered very loud and consequently have a lot of distortion and no dynamics. This is far more noticeable than the effect of mp3 type compression and there is nothing you can do about it (well, apart from getting into old music and more acoustic stuff that hasn't been vandalised). A better system will only make it more obvious.

                Loudness war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story about a guy named 'Manual.'

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                  #18
                  Even 96dB is overkill in the average listening environment. Aside from the fact that most reproduction chains won't get close to that you have a fairly small range of perhaps 30dB between too quiet to hear above background noise and uncomfortably loud, even less if targeting people listening to the their iPod on the train, so you really need to fit within that.

                  While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story about a guy named 'Manual.'

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                    #19
                    Originally posted by zeitghost
                    I suspect the problem comes from young oiks who think that they're "engineers" and probably couldn't find their arses with both hands.
                    It has it's roots in psychoacoustics. All other things being equal a difference of a few DB in loudness is perceived as sounding better.

                    The excesses have been driven by the record labels and artists as much as the mastering engineers, who often complain about being forced to ruin things against their will.
                    While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story about a guy named 'Manual.'

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                      #20
                      Originally posted by chef View Post
                      I know that both the preamp and tube power amp in the cottage were hand built by a friend of the owners who is an audio buff and into that stuff, the speakers connected were fairly old Mission 702's (not the 702e floor standing ones).

                      Why not enquire how much this croatian audio buff will build you a comparable system for?

                      Then you just need the other off the shelf bits (via ebay or specialist audio reseller if you don't want to risk getting newer yet possibly inferior alternatives) to achieve a fairly similar system.

                      Then you've just got your room acoustics to worry about, and the neighbours if they're not used to you playing loudish music at your convenience not theirs.

                      Alternatively, spend a few weekends searching audiophile shops for the holy grail. Maybe other easier to obtain alternatives will sound just as good (or even better) to you.
                      Feist - 1234. One camera, one take, no editing. Superb. How they did it
                      Feist - I Feel It All
                      Feist - The Bad In Each Other (Later With Jools Holland)

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