IQ and Race

[vista]

Oops

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4785574.stm

Why are his views "abhorrent" if there is genuine data backing his claim?

Discuss, abuse Chico or post some breasts on Test Please Delete.

I don't think his views are abhorrent at all, I think he's either completely wrong or the variance in IQ between races is so small (we're all basically humans after all but variation based on environmental evolution shouldn't be a surprise) that social and environmental effects dwarf any biological implications. For instance ethincs with poor education, heathcare and work are by enlarge going to expose their children to a similar lifestyle producing 'similar' people though there's always exceptions.

What's more interesting is if the ruling marxists manage to surpress this debate or if it takes its course.

[xoggoth]

As an engineer I also agree that we should not reject data simply because it does not suit currently accepted political thinking.

Also we should be a bit careful about drawing the wrong conclusions. Perhaps black people are thick but how much is due to diet as has already pointed out, and how much to purely demographic problems?

The Jews are supposedly the most intelligent race. Why? they are racially little different from Arabs, all that is different is a culture that has favoured breeding of the more succesful. As Vista said, differences in IQ are not very great and factors like this can explain the differences.

As far as here and now policies like immigration are concerned the figures are irrelevant as we should be looking at the individuals.

[Denny]

I don't think his views are abhorrent at all, I think he's either completely wrong or the variance in IQ between races is so small (we're all basically humans after all but variation based on environmental evolution shouldn't be a surprise) that social and environmental effects dwarf any biological implications. For instance ethincs with poor education, heathcare and work are by enlarge going to expose their children to a similar lifestyle producing 'similar' people though there's always exceptions.

What's more interesting is if the ruling marxists manage to surpress this debate or if it takes its course.

I reckon it's a load of twaddle. Intelligence can be divided into several catagories, there isn't just one kind of intelligence. Some people are naturally creative artistically, some gifted at administrative tasks, some great at thinking out fo the box, some at maths, some at English, some at science, some at music and so on. Like everyone, I'm very strong in some areas, not in others. Very few people are very good at everything.

I know plenty of very intelligent black people and some pretty thick white ones. If black kids underperform in schools it's not down to the amount of melanin in their skin or some other inherent genetic factor it's down to socio economic circumstances. White kids find themselves in the same position if they're not encouraged and don't have a stable education for some reason.

Some of the brightest people I've met at university have been Irish. Aren't they supposed to be thick?

[DimPrawn]

I once worked with an Irish, blonde female named Sharon.

Now you would expect her to be be pretty thick, but she was sharp as a pin.

So there!

[xoggoth]

First point is totally right Denny. IQ on it's own is an overrated quality. Without judgement, honesty and practicality, it is worthless.

Afraid I am never very impressed with the "I know lots of" sort of argument, it's subjective and narrow thinking and proves nothing whatever. I do most definitely agree that those of Irish descent are absolutely brilliant. This is not at all a subjective opinion but proven beyond all doubt whatsoever. We will not reveal our sources.

[Fungus]

Some of the best software engineers I have known have either had no degree, or a pass/third from an obscure ex-poly. As far as I can tell the intelligence that exams test is the ability to find an answer given the data. They don't test other equally important traits such as the ability to take risks, networking/social skills, how to choose a project/task, how to go about researching an area, and so on. Resourcefulness is not tested. Initiative is not tested. In fact an exam merely tests one small area of intellect i.e. analytic intelligence and force feeding. Maybe its not so surprising that one of the worst software engineers I've known had 5 grade A's at A level, and a first class honours degree in a science subject from Bristol university. He was useless with absolutely no independence whatsoever.

I guess the same goes for IQ tests.

As regards Jews, my understanding is that Jewish people have a strong respect for learning and advancement, and that drives them to overachieve as a group. How else could such a small group (~250,000 in the UK) achieve such prominence in the arts, media, sciences and professions. Silly me. It's a conspiracy.

[Fungus]

I do most definitely agree that those of Irish descent are absolutely brilliant. This is not at all a subjective opinion but proven beyond all doubt whatsoever. We will not reveal our sources.

Who am I to argue with an objective fact.

Mind you, the most argumentative people I've known have been Irish, or of Irish descent. The most argumentative was a Jew from Dublin.

[Mailman]

Well exactly - in a nutshell my friend!

Billions are spent every year keeping up this pretence that 'we are all equal and of equal ability'.

The problem is that we are all equal, however we don't all have equal ability.

If your parents are rubbish (always down the pub, never held a job, left school in year 5) then the chances of a child of theirs succeeding are pretty bloody small! Their chances of breaking the cycle are pretty slim if their role models are rubbish too (like Jordan, that chick with the big hooters from big bruva et al).

I look at the parents of some of the kids at my wife's school and then look at the kids and I don't see a future for them. Actually feel quite sorry for them really

Mailman

[wendigo100]

I don't think his views are abhorrent at all, I think he's either completely wrong or the variance in IQ between races is so small (we're all basically humans after all but variation based on environmental evolution shouldn't be a surprise) that social and environmental effects dwarf any biological implications.

1. Why do you think he might be completely wrong? He is basing his opinion on consistent results from a lot of scientific research.

2. Regarding your alternative view, why is it that environmental evolution can affect skin colour, susceptibility to sickle-cell aneamia, and a thousand other biological differences, but not significantly the function of the brain?

[Bagpuss]

But then dumb people are more likely to be poor, and if intelligence is genetic (i.e. passed on from your parents), poor and dumb people will have children who are more likely to be poor and dumb. So I don't think you can conclude that it's poorer education standards that leads to more poor people being dumb. Perhaps education standards are every bit as good in poor areas, but the children are just genuinely less intelligent and so it appears they do worse?

But you can't say that.

Not true that dumb people are likely to have dumb kids. There is a regression to the mean effect.