The Big Society

[RichardCranium]

I like the idea, decentralisation of responsibility, empowerment of the population to take charge of local services which are often supplied at a extremely low standard by the council.

Isn't that called an "anarchy"?

[Old Greg]

Gor! You are an old lefty! I'm really amazed, given history, that anyone still believes that sort of thing. That was Lenin's ideal and look what happened. Where has communism been anything but a repressive dictatorship in practice? Those who are ambitious and able will always rise to the top and control society, the only difference under communism is that they become part of the state. Unlike in a capitalist society that state is the only power in the land, there are no independent checks or sanctions.

I agree unfettered capitalism is no better, we need a free market with strong state regulations. Like the ones the government should have had on the banks.

I'm being a bit cheeky - I'm not a Leninist. Funnily enough, I think there are some interesting ideas about co-operatives coming out of the government, but I suspect they are a cover for massive cuts and privatisation. Really, I'm a co-operativist. I'd like to see the removal of the power of capital and bureacracy.

Anyway, I think it was Lenin who talked about the withering of the State - I just don't fancy the dictatorship of the proletariat stage.

[minestrone]

Isn't that called an "anarchy"?

Yes, that is what we call the council round these parts.

[xoggoth]

I'm being a bit cheeky - I'm not a Leninist

Sorry OldG, it was the capitalist classes bit.

Haven't we got any raving Maoists on CUK? Seems Nick and SAS (Churchill?) are the leftiest we have. Pity, I can bore for ages on capitalism vs communism.

[Old Greg]

Sorry OldG, it was the capitalist classes bit.

Haven't we got any raving Maoists on CUK? Seems Nick and SAS (Churchill?) are the leftiest we have. Pity, I can bore for ages on capitalism vs communism.

You misunderstand me again. Death to the capitalist classes!

[RichardCranium]

Death to the capitalist classes!

Yeah, right on, man! I hated O Level Economics lessons, too.

[Doggy Styles]

So what is CUK Party policy on this - should individuals take more responsibility for themselves (apparently that's what both Big Society and No Society means ), or the should the state do more (Big State)?

Personally I'd ask myself: What would Gordon Brown do?

[SueEllen]

Sceptical. I suppose it hinges largely on what this national citizen service is. There are a lot of people who have time for voluntary work and would be interested it, it's just that it is all such a damn hastle getting involved. Visiting umpteen office for leaflets, applying to different organisations, providing references & CRB check details over an over again, doing the similar tests (like bus driving) over and over.

Depends what sort of voluntary work you want to do.

Not everything involves CRB checks, references and tests. However they tend to be one off opportunities with societies/organisations which you have to say yes there and then.

If it only had a central body that did all this once more might bother. If it only works in more affluent areas it could save money.

Save a lot of bl**dy money if they did.

Problem with this Big Society thing is the people I know who volunteer will do it anyway. The people who don't still won't be bothered to do it.

[minestrone]

What Thatcher said about no society and this vision of a big society are, as I see, the same thing, Thatcher's speech is probably one of the most misunderstood political passages of the 20th century.

[sasguru]

Seems Nick and SAS (Churchill?) are the leftiest we have..

I don't know whether to be more offended that you think I'm Churchill or that you think I'm a lefty.

How wrong can one person be.

Aaaaarrrghhhhhhhhh!