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Pavlov's Children. The Brain: a Secret History. Outrage.

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    Pavlov's Children. The Brain: a Secret History. Outrage.

    Ivan Pavlov is famous for his 'dogs'. The concept for which Pavlov is famous is the "conditioned reflex" (or in his own words the conditional reflex: )

    In the 1890s, Pavlov was investigating the gastric function of dogs by externalizing a salivary gland so he could collect, measure, and analyze the saliva and what response it had to food under different conditions. He noticed that the dogs tended to salivate before food was actually delivered to their mouths, and set out to investigate this "psychic secretion", as he called it.

    He had taps drilled into the sides of the dogs mouths so saliva could be extracted and measured as part of the experiment. In addition, dogs were shocked with electricity on the ticking of a metronome.

    As part of the experiment, it was discovered that the dogs would produce saliva, not only when the food was present, but when the lab technicians arrived in their white coats. Basically the brain predicting the food. The same happened with the electricity. The dogs would yelp with pain after being conditioned with shocks off the ticking of the metronome, even though there was no shock. His experiments earned him the 1904 Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine

    BBC 4 has has been showing a program called 'History of the Brain'. I always knew the story of Pavlov's dogs. It had been alledged that Pavlov also did the same experiment on children. That he had holes and taps drilled into the side of childrens mouths to collect saliva and that he experimented on children on reflex action.

    History of the Brain just showed the footage!! The Pavlov dog experiment is harsh to watch. But BBC3 just showed actual footage of children being experimented on. It showed children with taps in the faces, plus reflex experiment. A child of maybe 2/3 strapped down being force fed food as part of a reflex experiment.

    FOR F U C K SAKES! Seriously what are they thinking. It is new footage they have found. It is not acceptable to be showing this. What next, Josef Mengele experimentation on Jews!

    Did anyone just see this? I have never turned off a TV program in disgust. 1st time. Looks like I do have a limit.
    What happens in General, stays in General.
    You know what they say about assumptions!

    #2
    FFS. Go tell it to the daily mail...
    The Mods stole my post count!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Pickle2 View Post
      FFS. Go tell it to the daily mail...
      Already complained to the BBC. Who on earth shows footage of experimentation on children!!!
      What happens in General, stays in General.
      You know what they say about assumptions!

      Comment


        #4
        Bloody 'ell. Just got in so didn't see it, but from MF's description I don't want to. I hope they at least broadcast the footage with a HUGE warning beforehand. Even then...

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by MarillionFan View Post
          Looks like I do have a limit.
          I saw here recently footage of an elephant being electrocuted in the name of science (edison?)
          Electrocuted as in dead.
          Yes we as a generation have loused up the economy, lowered the moral tone (Frankie Boyle for example), made promiscuity acceptable, made excessive drinking the norm etc etc.

          But AFAIK experimenting on kids is not acceptable. Progress?

          Perhaps future generations will only be able to experiment on kid clones.
          Knock first as I might be balancing my chakras.

          Comment


            #6
            oh dear. poor MF.

            He's not outraged that the experiments were carried out (decades ago). He is outraged that it was brought to his attention.

            oh dearie dearie me.

            why not get yourself over to China, sledge-man, join the Fallon Gong and have a good old whinge when they arrest you, execute you, then harvest you for body parts




            (\__/)
            (>'.'<)
            ("")("") Born to Drink. Forced to Work

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by EternalOptimist View Post
              oh dear. poor MF.

              He's not outraged that the experiments were carried out (decades ago). He is outraged that it was brought to his attention.

              oh dearie dearie me.

              why not get yourself over to China, sledge-man, join the Fallon Gong and have a good old whinge when they arrest you, execute you, then harvest you for body parts




              You are troll and I claim my 5 free sockies
              Knock first as I might be balancing my chakras.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by suityou01 View Post
                You are troll and I claim my 5 free sockies
                I am not trolling. There are some real horrors going on, even as you read this now. And to have to listen to some self regarding, bed wetting , small brained, parochial turd, whinge about some experiment that happened yonks ago is just irritating



                (\__/)
                (>'.'<)
                ("")("") Born to Drink. Forced to Work

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by EternalOptimist View Post
                  I am not trolling. There are some real horrors going on, even as you read this now. And to have to listen to some self regarding, bed wetting , small brained, parochial turd, whinge about some experiment that happened yonks ago is just irritating



                  MF's bedwetting has not gone unnoticed. I just thought he was trying to show me what it is like to suffer a bedwetter. Some of you were very patient (back in the day)

                  I get it now.
                  Knock first as I might be balancing my chakras.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by MarillionFan View Post
                    BBC 4 has has been showing a program called 'History of the Brain'.
                    The episode under discussion.

                    Originally posted by MarillionFan View Post
                    I always knew the story of Pavlov's dogs. It had been alleged that Pavlov also did the same experiment on children.
                    "it had been alleged that". Oh dear. It's going to be one of those rants is it?

                    Originally posted by MarillionFan View Post
                    That he had holes and taps drilled into the side of children's mouths to collect saliva and that he experimented on children on reflex action.

                    History of the Brain just showed the footage!! A child of maybe 2/3 strapped down being force fed food as part of a reflex experiment.
                    A small child without a salivary fistula lying down and being fed small biscuits through a tube. Shown straight after a different child who does have a salivary fistula (which does not require 'drilling' and is not an uncommon medical treatment), a dog getting an electric shock, and then cut to the presenter looking "all concerned". The presenter then even tells you what to think, FFS!

                    Then the presenter talks to you nicely, you are then shown a bare breast and a baby suckling. He then talks calmly again until it suddenly cuts to the sound of a baby crying and the sound of an electrical short circuit. (This all happens at 7 to 9 minutes in).

                    MF, this was written, edited and cut specifically to shock Daily Wail readers. It does NOT show children being electrocuted or operated on. It merely implies it happened.

                    It is like the Daily Hate in 1984.

                    BTW, did you never force feed your own children when they were small? Who didn't?

                    Originally posted by MarillionFan View Post
                    It is new footage they have found.
                    Yeah. Right. Always take that claim with a HUGE pinch of salt because those are weasel words.

                    Originally posted by MarillionFan View Post
                    It is not acceptable to be showing this. What next, Josef Mengele experimentation on Jews!

                    Did anyone just see this? I have never turned off a TV program in disgust. 1st time. Looks like I do have a limit.
                    You have been carefully mind-controlled by the presenter / editor to demand censorship. Watch it again, this time with the rational and critical part of your brain turned on.

                    On reflection, do you now realise how silly your post sounds: you have complained about a programme you did not watch all the way through. Do you want any books burned too?

                    And Godwin's Law applies since you mentioned Josef Mengele (whose experiments went far, far beyond anything even implied in this programme) which should have been a clue to you that you were erring on the side of irrational extremism.

                    Sorry, MF, but you have been had.
                    Last edited by RichardCranium; 7 January 2011, 03:15. Reason: Decided to take out the piss-taking. The programme-makers did enough of that.
                    My all-time favourite Dilbert cartoon, this is: BTW, a Dumpster is a brand of skip, I think.

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