Reply to: Pavlov's Children. The Brain: a Secret History. Outrage.

[Lost It]

Secret History? What's "secret" about the "Pavlov's Dog" research?

There were all kinds of "Experiments" on children, aversion therapy, growth rates (where do you think those "Average" figures came from?) in the past, during the last century.
I happen to believe that the history of how we got to where we are today is a very important source of information. Whether it was Beagles chain smoking woodbines or rabbits having cosmetics dripped into their eyes, or even strapping grown men into rocket sleds to test seatbelts... Or children having their saliva responses measured, it was all at some point necessary presumably. And if the world as we know it is safer, or better, shouldn't we be accepting that maybe how we got here might not be so palatable.

I heard a story which I have enough reason to believe it to be true that a certain car company used to use cadavers to measure the impact damage caused by its cars. Thats how we know the speed someone was hit by a car, below a certain speed they go under it. Above that speed they get knocked forward. Above that speed we go flying. So no real point lying about your speed if you knock someone over...
Child cadavers were used as well. It was all stopped when someone realised that if the use of child cadavers for "car crash" experiments got out the actual knowledge and benefit gained by this research might be sunk without trace by the uproar.
So now they use dummies that don't react in the same way because, well, humans have parts that are designed genitically to break a certain way to protect the critical parts.
Sometimes the "daily hatemail" click bait fake public outcry is completely out of proportion.

[greenlake]

Interesting, as I just watched my dog salivate as I wafted some treats under his nose

"some treats" you say?

The button mushroom more like!!

They're so much happier when they get the whole sausage....

[shaunbhoy]

Interesting, as I just watched my dog salivate as I wafted some treats under his nose

"some treats" you say?

The button mushroom more like!!

[MarillionFan]

Interesting, as I just watched my dog salivate as I wafted some treats under his nose, I mentioned to the wife that Pavlov had done the same experiments on children and a number of years earlier I had written to the BBC to complain when they showed some footage.

Interestingly on a quick Google search this is the 2nd or 3rd result. The show has never been rebroadcast again properly so, but reading this again I find the comments of EternalOptimist (a well known ex squaddie friend of a racist and a little dodgy when it came to his sexual tastes) and NickFitz an academical left winger standing up for it. EO I have no time for, Nick I’ll let you put it down to ‘different times’ and say no more about it.

I was right then, and righter now.

[Elevens]

Hello guys.
I found you through Google while was looking for sources on the named documentary.
Sorry for possible dead topic resurrection, I just liked your critical approach and wanted to ask if you know how to find sources on documentaries, preferably without spending 1-3 hours on checking the whole film cycle for them first.

[RichardCranium]

I wonder who'll do this post first?

No proper serial killer is named Douglas.

Douglas Daniel Clark. 7 or 8 victims.

Douglas Gretzler. 9 victims.

And, of course, Group Captain Sir Douglas Robert Steuart Bader. 10 or 11 victims.

[TimberWolf]

Disgraceful.

I saw part of one episode of the series last night and found the presenter Michael Mosley a bit creepy. I've seen him before and have been left somewhat unimpressed by him, though the Wiki says that he revealed a proposed link between Helicobacter pylori and gastric ulcers in a 1995 documentary, which I gather was controversial until recently, so he may not be all bad.

[MarillionFan]

Dear Mr Marillionfan


Thanks for contacting us regarding ‘The Brain: A Secret History’, broadcast on BBC Four on 6 January.

I understand that you found the inclusion of images of Ivan Pavlov’s experiments from the 1930’s to be unnecessary and disturbing.

We are aware of the wide range of people who our documentaries bur equally we have a responsibility to cover every aspect of subjects such as this. All our programmes are carefully considered in advance to ensure their content is suitable for broadcast. We believe it would be unacceptable for us to distort or suppress footage such as this because of its subject matter. In this case, the purpose of the experiments was made clear - it showed how Pavlov discovered conditioning.

The presenter Michael Mosley also made it clear how disturbing he found these images during the programme.

We’re guided by the feedback that we receive and to that end I'd like to assure you that I've registered your complaint on our audience log. This is a daily report of audience feedback that's circulated to many BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive Board, programme makers, channel controllers and other senior managers.

The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content.

Thanks for taking the time to contact us.

Finally, I have attached an invitation from BBC Audience Services' Head of Communications & Complaints, asking you to participate in our customer survey. We would welcome your views on our service.

Kind Regards

Some Fella at the BBC
BBC Complaints

Disgraceful.

[realityhack]

Let's all go and picket the BBC and protest about programmes we haven't seen, merely read about on the Internet from some anonymous poster who watched the first 8 minutes of a 60 minute programme.

And you're meant to be a moderator, FFS.

Who said anything about picketing? MF isn't 'anonymous' to me. And anyway, if somebody describes what they interpreted as child abuse in the name of science, why wouldn't you be disgusted? Regardless of the veracity of their claim. Cahm dahn RC, take some more lemsip.

[suityou01]

I'm bored.

Any chance of a Friday quiz?

Good Idea, I'll start.

Which former CUK hardman turned bedwetter allegedly made a mint selling sledges at the end of last year?

[RichardCranium]

She was one of hundreds who was drugged and kept asleep for up to three months in a darkened room and given what they are pleased to call "heroic" amounts of ECT. The BBC barely covered this experiment probably because there is believed to have been government and pharmaceutical business backing for it.

Not hundreds. Millions, globally. Commonly used willy-nilly for decades in much of the 20th century. See: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, One Few Over the Cuckoo's Nest, or any of Jo Brand's earlier live acts.

And it is still in use.




<a-choo> <whimper> <koff>

[MarillionFan]

aye, lets put it bed now.
mind the damp patch

I'm bored.

Any chance of a Friday quiz?

[RichardCranium]

So I am upset by videos of children being abused and switch off.

You did not get upset by a video of children being abused. You got upset at what you were being told you were seeing. What you were actually shown was one child with a medical treatment, and another lying down being fed biscuits.

It was the interspersed images, overlaid sound and commentary and emotion-control activity by the presenter / editor that made you think you saw child abuse.

You get upset by spelling, grammar and misuse of Internet forums.

Too right. Ignorant and indolent posting is a crime to society.

And they say that IT geeks can't relate to other people.

They only say it to try to wind you up. Real IT geeks don't care.



<cough> <cough> <cough>

[EternalOptimist]

I understand why you were upset

Now please stop all this bedwetting, it's embarassing.

aye, lets put it bed now.
mind the damp patch

[suityou01]

So I am upset by videos of children being abused and switch off.

You get upset by spelling, grammar and misuse of Internet forums.

And they say that IT geeks can't relate to other people.

I understand why you were upset

Now please stop all this bedwetting, it's embarassing.