Student revolts; why not work AND study?

[Mich the Tester]

I see lots of stuff in the news about student protests and high tuition fees, with students complaining that they won’t be able to afford to get a degree or will be paying back debts for life.

But what strikes me is the rather old fashioned thinking that you have to get your degree in three or four years before you’re 22 and then get yourself into Big Corporation PLC on a management traineeship. It doesn’t have to be that way. Britain offers part time education and probably the best distance education in the world (OU) at very reasonable prices, so you can go to work AND study for a degree. OK, so it will take a few years longer, but what difference does two or three years make in the bigger picture of life? Bugger all, for most people. Worked for me when I had to leave half way through the second year after the family business went pear shaped. A few years later I had a good degree and got started on the Postgrad qualifications that have served me well.

As well as this, all over Europe we have a pensions problem; people are living longer but working shorter and the money has to come from somewhere to pay for pensions. So why, instead of raising retirement ages, aren’t people being encouraged to start work earlier when they’re young and fit?

Surely an expansion of high quality part time and distance education could kill two birds with one stone? Perhaps also people’s expectations of their kids need to change a little, so that it’s no longer seen as the norm to get all your qualifications before age 22, and to see education as a life-long occupation.

Oh well, I’m probably preaching to the converted as I know that a lot of contractors take the life long learning thing seriously, so as to stay competitive in their field.

But surely Nick and Dave could suggest to the revolting students that the OU or part time study offers them an attractive alternative where they don’t need to build up huge debts, or is there some silly stigma against part time distance education?

Perhaps those Stewed Ents that can't think of this themselves just aren't brainy enough to deserve a degree.

[TimberWolf]

Presumably, with the degree inflation that's been occurring over the last decade, OU degrees have increased in respectability or worth compared to how they were once perceived too. How much do they cost?

[markmm]

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[Mich the Tester]

Presumably, with the degree inflation that's been occurring over the last decade, OU degrees have increased in respectability or worth compared to how they were once perceived too. How much do they cost?

Assuming you study for 4 years it'll end up costing about 4 grand; you can get financial assistance and many big employers view OU degrees very favourably. Maybe there's no stigma outside the UK; the OU is known overseas as a very good university; it's also rated highly by all the quality inspection surveys.

The concept of open access is not strange to Europeans; I believe that in Bologna, it's easy to get in to the university, but the exams at the end of the first year are so tough that only about a third can cut the mustard. Selection at the start is not the only way to ensure a high standard of qualifications.

[TimberWolf]

Assuming you study for 4 years it'll end up costing about 4 grand; you can get financial assistance and many big employers view OU degrees very favourably. Maybe there's no stigma outside the UK; the OU is known overseas as a very good university; it's also rated highly by all the quality inspection surveys.

The concept of open access is not strange to Europeans; I believe that in Bologna, it's easy to get in to the university, but the exams at the end of the first year are so tough that only about a third can cut the mustard. Selection at the start is not the only way to ensure a high standard of qualifications.

I have seen reports of OU degrees being highly regarded, but even so I can't help the (unsubstantiated) feeling that employers of yore viewed OU degrees on a CV with a certain degree (no pun intended) of scepticism. My main point though it the now, it may even that now the tables have turned and it may be perceived as good as or superior to a red brick degree. It certainly makes sense, especially if, as you say, the candidate comes with work experience bundled in, even if it is only waiting on tables. And at 4 grand, a more intelligent decision.

[TimberWolf]

Other universities offer 'distance' degree course now too of course, though I'm not sure about bachelor's degrees. I've seen plenty of adverts for Master's and other post-graduate courses.

[Mich the Tester]

I have seen reports of OU degrees being highly regarded, but even so I can't help the (unsubstantiated) feeling that employers of yore viewed OU degrees on a CV with a certain degree (no pun intended) of scepticism. My main point though it the now, it may even that now the tables have turned and it may be perceived as good as or superior to a red brick degree. It certainly makes sense, especially if, as you say, the candidate comes with work experience bundled in, even if it is only waiting on tables. And at 4 grand, a more intelligent decision.

Remember that lots of hiring managers have done OU and distance courses themselves to get postgrad qualifications; those people are generally well disposed to OU graduates because they know the effort involved and know that it requires a lot of self discipline. I'm one of them, so when I see candidates (I'm often involved in hiring people for clients) with OU qualifications I'm more than happy to give them a chance.

Obviously, different employers view things differently, but you have to wonder whether it's worth it for young people to work for someone who doesn't appreciate the value of ongoing education.

Here in NL, the big multinationals all seem to appreciate people doing OU qualifications, and some even have liaison officers with the Dutch OU, tailoring degrees to their requirements.

The OU is also one of GB's export success stories, and there's plenty more potential to export education. Might be part of the solution for Ireland too as they have a few outstanding universities.

[thunderlizard]

I don't think you can study to as high a level part-time. The high-pressure immersion (I am talking about decent universities here) forces you to think at more of a velocity. For instance if you've got a week to write an essay and the whole week to do it in, you might suddenly get interested in a single aspect of it, and be able to read about it in depth. That won't work if you've got to keep popping off for your shifts at the pie factory.

I do think that the full-time university lifestyle produces a better independence of thought than home-based distance learning.

[Mich the Tester]

I don't think you can study to as high a level part-time. The high-pressure immersion (I am talking about decent universities here) forces you to think at more of a velocity. For instance if you've got a week to write an essay and the whole week to do it in, you might suddenly get interested in a single aspect of it, and be able to read about it in depth. That won't work if you've got to keep popping off for your shifts at the pie factory.

I do think that the full-time university lifestyle produces a better independence of thought than home-based distance learning.

Do you have evidence for this, or is it just personal experience? Different people thrive in different environments with different methods; it can't be a 'one size fits all' solution.

[thunderlizard]

Do you have evidence for this, or is it just personal experience? Different people thrive in different environments with different methods; it can't be a 'one size fits all' solution.

Mainly personal experience. I'd agree with you that if all we want universities to do is churn out management consultants, accountants and bankers, then part-time is probably fine. However I don't think we'll ever see many top scientists, economists, or even top teachers coming out of the part-time route.