Is the UK doomed to pro-longed decline?

[norrahe]

China is slowly becoming "westernised" in the way that Japan has already embraced. The difference is that Japan has made the westernisation its own, China is very much an emerging culture.

Its place in the world economy has become more dominant after the hit everyone else took in 2008.

[vetran]

plenty of high achieving Indians and and even ex USSR both in their home countries and abroad, just needs them to start doing business day to day not copying it, they are starting. Remember Japan copied for goods for years then wiped the floor with the complacent west.

Agree the east is rising, now we have to do the following as a country:
1. Move up the food chain.
2. Cut outgoings.
3. Adjust to less wealth.

[Ignis Fatuus]

Where can we be world-beaters? We may have had decent scientists, engineers, inventors in the past, but I see no reason why other countries can't do better than us now. We don't have the natural resources, nor the driven-population that could extract us from the mire. Our costs are high, and our infra-structure is creaking at the seams. So, what's going to save us? The only natural advantage we currently have, from where I'm looking, is the English language.

Look at Germany instead: all those and no English. They must really be failing miserably, then.

[Mich the Tester]

I dont share that view.
IMO the east is following. They're not pioneers or leading the way.
Everything they're doing today to 'emerge' is just an echo of what we have already achieved.
Where is the new stuff?,... what are they doing (other than providing cheap labour) that is better or more innovative than what we have already achieved?

WHS

I think the UK has a good future as long as investment in scientific education continues, as does all of western Europe. I think the doomthinkers who say China's going to 'overtake' us all have missed out on something; Europe has a fine combination of good scientific education, heavily subsidized fundamental research AND intellectual freedom. You could build a CERN in China, but the one big advantage Europe has is that you´re allowed to think and say whatever you like, you´re allowed to study whatever you like and publish whatever you like; that means a whole lot of bumph and the occasional nugget that really changes the world. As long as the UK gets its middle education level up to European levels, and continues to fund leading universities, it´ll be OK. The Americans are in real danger of destroying their scientific base in an orgy of creationism, while the Chinese discourage unconventional thinkers. Remember; technology and applied science needs pure science to keep innovating; Europe is well placed to lead the world in pure science.

[lukemg]

I think we are going to get squeezed, prospect of a switch to a 'knowledge' economy where we could keep an advantage has fizzled out with gloabalisation and data transfer rates increases.
My plan B consists of investments - Most of this is going East at the moment, they do well I get some benefit - nice...

[Paddy]

Where can we be world-beaters? We may have had decent scientists, engineers, inventors in the past, but I see no reason why other countries can't do better than us now. We don't have the natural resources, nor the driven-population that could extract us from the mire. Our costs are high, and our infra-structure is creaking at the seams. So, what's going to save us? The only natural advantage we currently have, from where I'm looking, is the English language.

The English language is not an asset, it is a disadvantage. Had we a minority language we would learn English as a second language. By having English as our first language has opened up our country to mass immigration and exploitation. Having a minority language also protects native culture.

[Mich the Tester]

Having a minority language also protects native culture.

What, like Welsh?

[alreadypacked]

WHS

I think the UK has a good future as long as investment in scientific education continues, as does all of western Europe. I think the doomthinkers who say China's going to 'overtake' us all have missed out on something; Europe has a fine combination of good scientific education, heavily subsidized fundamental research AND intellectual freedom. You could build a CERN in China, but the one big advantage Europe has is that you´re allowed to think and say whatever you like, you´re allowed to study whatever you like and publish whatever you like; that means a whole lot of bumph and the occasional nugget that really changes the world. As long as the UK gets its middle education level up to European levels, and continues to fund leading universities, it´ll be OK. The Americans are in real danger of destroying their scientific base in an orgy of creationism, while the Chinese discourage unconventional thinkers. Remember; technology and applied science needs pure science to keep innovating; Europe is well placed to lead the world in pure science.

We can value things, but if the people with the money to invest don't, what are the worth.

We are on the way out, what we value is heading the same way.

[Mich the Tester]

We can value things, but if the people with the money to invest don't, what are the worth.

We are on the way out, what we value is heading the same way.

Well you have a point; I see a culture (Europe in general) in which things of value are being destroyed in favour of cheapness and 'efficiency´. I think Europe´s intellectual traditions and cultural development are at real risk from short sighted populism and blind cost-cutting. But I´m optimistic that the intellectual freedom and the far sighted view of a few clever people can see us through.

[sasguru]

...the far sighted view of a few clever people can see us through.

There may be such people around but they're not the ones setting policy and drafting legislation.