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NHS For all - if you don't smoke and are not fat!

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    NHS For all - if you don't smoke and are not fat!

    Obese 'can be refused operations'

    Being obese can affect the chance of a successful operation
    Forty percent of doctors agree obese patients should be refused joint surgery if resources are limited, a survey suggests.
    The same proportion felt smokers and drinkers could be barred from certain procedures, the British Medical Association's magazine BMA News found.

    The 225 doctors polled said the NHS realistically could not treat everyone.

    But they said treatment could be denied only for clinical reasons, rather than because of cost.

    The vast majority - 96% - said they would welcome an open debate on rationing in the NHS in order to clear up confusion about the subject.

    Last year the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), said patients' lifestyles could be taken into account when considering if a treatment would be effective.

    It said discrimination against patients with conditions that are, or may be, self-inflicted should be avoided when guidance is being drawn up for the NHS.

    But its report said that if self-inflicted factors meant that drugs or treatment would be less clinically and cost-effective, this may need to be considered when producing advice for the NHS.

    'We all err'

    In November, three Suffolk primary care trusts ruled patients with a body mass index (BMI) over 30 - which is classed as being obese - would not get operations like hip and knee replacements.

    Doctors in the BMA News survey expressed broad support for the decision.

    Dr Simon Ruffle, a GP in Reading, added: "I think that it may be clinically justified, in some cases, not to perform joint replacements and certain procedures but it is not justifiable to withhold them from some and not others on cost grounds."

    The survey also found that 39% of those surveyed felt smokers and drinkers should be excluded from certain procedures.

    Abergavenny GP Dr Elizabeth Evans said: "If the effectiveness of the procedure is directly compromised by the patient's actions, such as liver transplants for people who cannot abstain from drinking, then a policy of excluding such patients is justifiable."

    Clinical need

    A BMA spokeswoman said a blanket ban on giving a treatment to certain groups of people, such as smokers or those who are obese, would be "wholly unacceptable".

    She added: "The judgement should always be 'does this person need treatment?' and 'will treatment be of benefit?' Every case should be considered on an individual basis."

    And Dr David Haslam, chair of the National Obesity Forum, said: "It always has to be a clinical decision and not a financial one.

    "There will certainly be occasions where, because of obesity's link to complications, an operation will not be appropriate."

    A Department of Health spokesman said: "Treatment should be decided by doctors based on the clinical needs of the patients - not their lifestyle choices."

    =============================================


    So can an overweight smoking binge drinker withold their taxes? Why should they pay into something which he/she is going to be barred from using?

    Also, how much does the govt get from taxing cigs & alcohol?
    Rule Number 1 - Assuming that you have a valid contract in place always try to get your poo onto your timesheet, provided that the timesheet is valid for your current contract and covers the period of time that you are billing for.

    I preferred version 1!

    #2
    Originally posted by TonyEnglish
    [...]

    So can an overweight smoking binge drinker withold their taxes? Why should they pay into something which he/she is going to be barred from using?

    Also, how much does the govt get from taxing cigs & alcohol?
    And rubbish food too.....
    I've seen much of the rest of the world. It is brutal and cruel and dark, Rome is the light.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by TonyEnglish
      Obese 'can be refused operations'


      Also, how much does the govt get from taxing cigs & alcohol?
      Enough per pack that at 20 a day smoker of 45 years age could easily pay for the top BUPA cover (HC01) from the tax on their fags alone.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by TonyEnglish
        So can an overweight smoking binge drinker withold their taxes? Why should they pay into something which he/she is going to be barred from using?

        Also, how much does the govt get from taxing cigs & alcohol?
        Excellent point Tony. When you add up the duty on 20 fags a day, smokers pay £1400 extra in tax per year. Assuming they smoke for 30 years before they start needing significant treatment, I reckon they have paid for it.

        BTW I'm working for Bill Gates now.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by wendigo100
          Excellent point Tony. When you add up the duty on 20 fags a day, smokers pay £1400 extra in tax per year. Assuming they smoke for 30 years before they start needing significant treatment, I reckon they have paid for it.

          BTW I'm working for Bill Gates now.
          Shhhhh.... we are in the era of new intollerance where only the super-fit, super-clever can survive. By 2020 the mininum height for an adult is 6' and the maximum weigth is 180lbs. Everybody with miopia will be sent into caves and everybody who has less than 200 IQ points will be executed before they become 18 years old...... women must at least have a 36DD cup or else they will be forced to have a transplant. Genetic software will let you have the flexibility of choosing a few options like the hair color (light brown or dark for men, and blonde or platinum for females). Everybody over 40 will be shipped to Mars.
          I've seen much of the rest of the world. It is brutal and cruel and dark, Rome is the light.

          Comment


            #6
            Roll up roll up solicitors around the country - rich pickings indeed at the expense of the NHS. The NHS would end up being sued left, right and centre for deliberately and maliciously witholding treatment from tax payers who do not fit the NHS' view of ideal patients.

            And if this Gov't thinks of legislating to allow this I think they would find it infinitely more easy to get their education bill through Parliament than they would this sort of vicious legislation.

            Comment


              #7
              Also, smokers do the state a favour by dying younger - no pensions or old age care needed. I did read as a factoid in the late 90s that the tax raised from tobacco and booze was enough to pay for the entire NHS budget.

              The 225 doctors polled said the NHS realistically could not treat everyone.
              Now that is truly alarming. Should, realistically, I expect a tax rebate then?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by TonyEnglish
                So can an overweight smoking binge drinker withold their taxes? Why should they pay into something which he/she is going to be barred from using?
                Because by definition you pay a tax because you're due to pay, end of story; not because of hope of return. Tax isn't a 2-way street.

                Comment


                  #9
                  [QUOTE=Lucifer Box]Also, smokers do the state a favour by dying younger QUOTE]
                  That would mean less people to to contribute to state employees pensions funds, not that wouldn't do
                  Your parents ruin the first half of your life and your kids ruin the second half

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by expat
                    Because by definition you pay a tax because you're due to pay, end of story; not because of hope of return. Tax isn't a 2-way street.
                    And just why are we "due to pay" then expat? The only rationale for taxation is that we cannot expect to receive certain things from the state unless we are prepared to chip in financially for those things. Its a tad unfair to expect people to chip in on that basis then to deny them the very thing they have contributed towards on a technicality. Well at least it is on our planet, do they view things differently in that parallel dimension of yours? And is there still no tax on tree-hugging in expatonia?
                    “The period of the disintegration of the European Union has begun. And the first vessel to have departed is Britain”

                    Comment

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