4 out of 5 new jobs go to foreigners

[Mich the Tester]

A lot of people in my industry have gone straight from school to work, as long as someone can do a job, often a degree level education is irrelevant if you have the right person. Unless it's the kind of job you actually need said education e.g. medicine for one example.

There are some fields where the vocational training can be said to be equivalent to degree level education. I'd say aerospace is one of them; some nurses have a similar level of education, most armed forces officers, many senior people in the emergency services, and there are more.

But there are lots of people who seem entirely ill equipped for working in the modern economy, where interpersonal skills, decent (not necessarily perfect) language skills, basic arithmetics and an understanding of logic are important, along with the discipline to turn up and get the job done. As I said, if someone from another country demonstrates these qualities whereas the local doesn't, the local should not complain when the 'foreigner' gets the job.

[Mich the Tester]

You can also blame employers for insisting on a degree (any) over a technical apprenticeship.

In some cases I wouldn't get over the first HR hurdle where someone with a degree in Christmas would.

You're right. I think the European qualification levels 1 to 5 are an attempt to get over this; level 5 is basically considered degree level in Europe, and level 4 as very close.

[norrahe]

There are some fields where the vocational training can be said to be equivalent to degree level education. I'd say aerospace is one of them; some nurses have a similar level of education, most armed forces officers, many senior people in the emergency services, and there are more.

But there are lots of people who seem entirely ill equipped for working in the modern economy, where interpersonal skills, decent (not necessarily perfect) language skills, basic arithmetics and an understanding of logic are important, along with the discipline to turn up and get the job done. As I said, if someone from another country demonstrates these qualities whereas the local doesn't, the local should not complain when the 'foreigner' gets the job.

It's not often skills that are the deciding factor as pointed out earlier, money often wins out in teh argument over who shall you employ, same skills but if one is willing to work for less, of course you are going to plump for the cheaper option.

[doodab]

there are lots of people who seem entirely ill equipped for working in the modern economy, where interpersonal skills, decent (not necessarily perfect) language skills, basic arithmetics and an understanding of logic are important, along with the discipline to turn up and get the job done. As I said, if someone from another country demonstrates these qualities whereas the local doesn't, the local should not complain when the 'foreigner' gets the job.

I know people with firsts from redbrick universities who cannot add two fractions.

[Mich the Tester]

I know people with firsts from redbrick universities who cannot add two fractions.

All points taken.

However, I really wonder whether there's a problem of education failing to prepare lots of people, perhaps primarily at the lower end of the educational scale, to live in a modern society and work in a modern economy. I hear the same whining about ´foreigners taking our jobs´ here in Holland, and perhaps view things differently because I AM a foreigner. An example; I did a contract a few years a go at a Dutch energy company who had decided that English would be the corporate language instead of Dutch. Whatever the logic was I don´t know, but they did offer free English language training to all employees (who had already had 10 years of English at school), and still permies were moaning about having to speak and write in English. Some said they would lose their jobs to foreigners because they can't speak English. I'm afraid that if you grow up in Holland with all the opportunities for education, all the international media around you and have an employer who offers you free education, you can't complain when an employer hires a foreigner with the right skills. Same goes for all of Northern Europe; if you lose your job to an immigrant you need to start by looking at yourself.

[doodab]

I really wonder whether there's a problem of education failing to prepare lots of people, perhaps primarily at the lower end of the educational scale, to live in a modern society and work in a modern economy.

You have a point. We are giving them unrealistic expectations.

Education should prepare people for 40 hours a week of badly paid tedium.

[IR35 Avoider]

On a related note, earlier today I read an article in Telegraph by Jeff Randall, who spent two weeks in Merthyr Tydfil making a documentary. One in ten are claiming incapacity benefit. A new factory that opened nearby is employing most foreign labour, the local people don't want the jobs. Most blame Thatcher for causing lack of jobs by closing the mines, but when an open-cast mine recently advertised for 100 apprentices, only five people applied. Youth he interviewed said that Cardiff was to far away (45 minutes) to look for a job, and anyway he didn't know how to get there. If benefits were taken away, he wouldn't work, he'd thieve.

[mrdonuts]

mitch the tester spouting nonsense as per usual

currently in this country there are huge numbers of highly skilled/talented individuals who are unemployed

i hope unemployment darkens your door mitch, sooner rather than later

perhaps then you will open your eyes to what is going on in the real world

[Mich the Tester]

mitch the tester spouting nonsense as per usual

currently in this country there are huge numbers of highly skilled/talented individuals who are unemployed

i hope unemployment darkens your door mitch, sooner rather than later

perhaps then you will open your eyes to what is going on in the real world

I have been unemployed in the past.

Anyway, if 'this country' is so devoid of opportunity, why not try somewhere else?

[mrdonuts]

im doing fine mitch, however unlike you i worry about my fellow countrymen and women and the effect this is having on the society in which i live