Do you think you have free will?

[MaryPoppins]

Given that we already know MP is capable of simultaneously raising a child, holding down a contract, dealing with an arse of an ex and fending off HMRC, I am perfectly willing to accept that she could add kicking my arse to that list without even blinking and that philosophy is something she doesnt bother with cos it presents no challenge

Creep.



Loves it. Ta!

[TimberWolf]

I’m struggling to describe my thoughts on this but I have a feeling ‘random’ doesn’t really exist, but actually something which is the result of entropy may appear random while still obeying certain rules.

Sort of, erm, innit.

I have trouble believing randomness can come from nowhere too. Randomness is usually a tricky thing to achieve and a high level phenomenon.

I believe there exist deterministic (hidden variable) theories that are compatible with (the predictions of the randomness and undecidedness inherent in) quantum theory, but I'm not sure on current status. At one point they had appeared to have been killed off, but I'm not certain today.

[sasguru]

Randomness is usually a tricky thing to achieve and a high level phenomenon.

.

Randomness is seen at a very low (sub-atomic) level.

[Mich the Tester]

Randomness is seen at a very low (sub-atomic) level.

Is it really randomness or conformity to rules we do not yet understand?

[NotAllThere]

Where does randomness come from though?

God playing dice, of course.

[threaded]

Where does randomness come from though?

Randomness is an illusion also.

[EternalOptimist]

Free will exists.

All you need to do is to come up with a suiltable thought experiment.


You do not believe in free will.


So here is my thought experiment.


I have an advantage over you, because I can come around to your house, bone your missus, steal your money and eat your tea. There is no point trying to reason with me, my actions are predetermined. There is no point trying to punish me afterwards, i couldnt help myself. There is no point trying to deter others by punishing me, they too are predetermined.



Now you try coming round to my house and doing that.
I believe you had a choice so I will reach for the baseball bat.
You can think it over whilst lying in the hospital bed drinking tomato soup through a straw.


so in evolutionary terms, it pays to believe in free will, plus you get burgled less

[TimberWolf]

Randomness is seen at a very low (sub-atomic) level.

appears to be seen

Hidden variable theories are possible.

[TimberWolf]

so in evolutionary terms, it pays to believe in free will, plus you get burgled less

Indeed.

[Mich the Tester]

Free will exists.

All you need to do is to come up with a suiltable thought experiment.


You do not believe in free will.


So here is my thought experiment.


I have an advantage over you, because I can come around to your house, bone your missus, steal your money and eat your tea. There is no point trying to reason with me, my actions are predetermined. There is no point trying to punish me afterwards, i couldnt help myself. There is no point trying to deter others by punishing me, they too are predetermined.



Now you try coming round to my house and doing that.
I believe you had a choice so I will reach for the baseball bat.
You can think it over whilst lying in the hospital bed drinking tomato soup through a straw.


so in evolutionary terms, it pays to believe in free will, plus you get burgled less

Well, I agree that it pays to practice a belief in free will, but is that the same as really believing in it? In some societies it is beneficial to demonstrate a belief in God, Allah or some other deity, and in fact in some societies it’s dangerous not to demonstrate that belief. However, demonstrating belief and believing are not the same. You can pretend for your own gain or safety, while privately not believing.

I’ll still kick your head in if you try it with Lady Tester though.