1001 reasons NEVER to vote TORY

[BoredBloke]

"The same way the French have handled their overly large agricultural sector - subsidy - could have got the EU to pay for it too."

Doesn't that just say it all. So we ask Europe to pay out to support our inefficient manufacturing sector. Presumably if we did then we would all still be able to buy a brand new Allegro or Princess.

Also, wasn't the budget rebate a payback for the disproportionate amount we were paying and the amount France was getting through farm subsidies. I wonder who it was who gave a hefty chunk of that away for absolutely noting?

[DodgyAgent]

It's called a taxation system DA. It is a form of collective responsibility that you will never comprehend.

So do you think taking tax from people to subsidise an Industry for which there is little commercial demand (at the prices required) is a good thing? Or are you a supporter of collectivism per se?

[Jabberwocky]

Absolutely, it is a form of insurance to protect the people in this country from rapid changes in demand and outside competition. This allows a gradual reduction in the work force. It is why we are a country and not 60 million individuals.

[BoredBloke]

But doesn't that just promote large inefficient industries who have no market for their products, simply because letting them go would mean thousands on the dole que? So if we had continued to prop up BL, no doubt we would now be living in a land where the roads were used to simply store the unwanted cars they had made, out of the hugely expensive steel which they had to buy from British Steel.

[mcquiggd]

We arent a country, we are 60 million DNA samples. And about 5 million illegal immigrants.

[Jabberwocky]

No you miss the point of subsidy Tony, there is still demand for coal, steel, cars *now* - just at much reduced world prices - we subsidise the companies so that they can offer these competitive prices, whilst at the same time downsizing their company gradually.

[BoredBloke]

"whilst at the same time downsizing their company gradually."

but that is the part which does not happen, and would not have happened. If you subsidise something you increase the likelyhood of it becomming more and more uncompetative. BL proves this. Without the subsidies it was uneconomic, yet staggered on for years because the government of the day propped it up.

To see the subsidy idea in all its glory, look at the eastern block countries. How many of them had world leading efficient industries?

[Jabberwocky]

It propped it up for political rather than economic reasoning. The subsidies I am thinking of are not guaranteed and in fact are guaranteed to decrease after a few years - it gives the company time to become to reduce costs or if not reduce their workforce. The coal miners were not an inefficient industry - they were just not able to match the lower living standards and abundancy of coal elsewhere. Gradual and decreasing subsidy would allow the older workers to retire and the younger ones to retrain.

[DodgyAgent]

Absolutely, it is a form of insurance to protect the people in this country from rapid changes in demand and outside competition. This allows a gradual reduction in the work force. It is why we are a country and not 60 million individuals.

It is called communism and it does not work. Why? because subsidies (welfare is one) create a comfort zone, which may sound wonderful, but creates resentment amongst others and removes the motivation for people/businesses to compete/change or adapt.

It also does not seem to occur to you that by subsidising one industry you are "de-subsidising another". Subsidies also create false markets that hike prices for consumers and kill off other markets (look what the CAP is doing to third world agriculture).

[Phoenix]

(look what the CAP is doing to third world agriculture).

I thought they were promoting the condom?