National Pride

[EternalOptimist]

hows about

Mich the tester - proud to be a Goth

[DodgyAgent]

Ah, well I understand that, but what I don’t understand is that people then wish to impose that sense of belonging on other people who may be quite happy with the groups they already belong to, like a profession, a sports club or a family. You see, in my life, nationalism or national pride just doesn’t have the relevance or purpose that it seems to have for some other people. I’ve lived in 5 different countries since I was born, have traveled to many others, and if I look at it objectively I can think of things I like and dislike in all of them, as well as people and groups to which I can belong in all of them.

Some muslims in the UK want to impose Sharia law on the UK, which is interesting because every society governed by Sharia law is poor.

[Moscow Mule]

Ah, some intelligent answers arriving now!

I do indeed try to defend certain values, but those values are perhaps more generically western European/western/modern/libertarian/enlightenmentish than belonging to any particular nation or state.

A true European.

Mich, you should run for office.

[sasguru]

National Pride Party.

An amalgamation of a radical and violent splinter group of the National Front and the Gay Pride movement.

History has shown that most Nazis are closet gays. Or at least don't get it much.

[Mich the Tester]

Some muslims in the UK want to impose Sharia law on the UK, which is interesting because every society governed by Sharia law is poor.

Well that’s very stupid of them. I personally don’t think they stand a cat’s chance in hell, but I would defend their right to express a stupid opinion, as long as they do so peacefully.

[Mich the Tester]

hows about

Mich the tester - proud to be a Goth

metalhead; Lady Tester's the goth

[Mich the Tester]

Oh I see. In that case, I'm looking for a rationale for whether I should have pasta or noodles for lunch.

Anyone?

Noodles are a form of Pasta, so it doesn't really matter.

[sasguru]

I do indeed try to defend certain values, but those values are perhaps more generically western European/western/modern/libertarian/enlightenmentish than belonging to any particular nation or state.

Indeed and those values are well worth defending.
The threat to them comes from various forms of fundamentalism and has nothing to do with nationality until and unless a country adopts it as its official policy: far right, far left, muslim fundamentalist - what all these groups share is the belief that they are right and better than you.

[Gibbon]

abide by the law as long as the law is moral and just

In who's opinion, that is not a valid argument otherwise anarchy would prevail.

[Mich the Tester]

In who's opinion, that is not a valid argument otherwise anarchy would prevail.

Ah, but here lies a problem. You could have chosen to go along with the majority view, or indeed the view of the democratically elected government in Germany in the 1930’s and 1940’s and abide by the law, but a few brave individuals followed their conscience instead. They died for their consciences, and were, by the law of the land, traitors. But surely their moral stand makes them heroes now?





Now I’m not saying national pride equals national socialism, that would be silly and insulting, but I am proposing that an individual or a small group of individuals can be morally sound while opposing, even violently, the ‘morals’ of the majority and breaking the law. This example may seem extreme, but might stimulate thought and debate on the relation of individual morality to state law.