Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - A reprise

[EternalOptimist]

My rough understanding is that science moved away from philosophy a long time ago, to the empirical because the former was carp and getting wrong results. More recently philosophy has tried to make inroads back into science, but science isn't really interested about the navel gazing stuff and carries on regardless. Admittedly logic and science have roots in philosophy. A common ancestor at the very least.

The theory of science is great, till you start to get in close.
Where do hypotheses come from ? thats the clincher (in my mind)

[NickFitz]

Also I notice the way he treats his kid is tantamount to child abuse e.g. waking him early to go riding at 6.30 in the morning when its freezing cold.

It may be that the only appropriate holiday for the spoilt Jessicas and Simons of Surrey involves sleeping in a hotel on the Med until the breakfast buffet, followed by a day spent lounging on the beach between meals. However, not everybody chooses to live like a Daily Mail reader, and it doesn't seem excessively demanding to take a twelve-year-old boy on a camping and touring holiday and expect him to get up an hour or two after sunrise.

[TimberWolf]

I should have thought there was a reasonably intact continuum from pre-Socrates philosophy to modern theoretical physics.

This is most amply demonstrated by such barminess as string theory.

To be honest I expect philosophers fall out over string theory. No testable predictions, etc. Science carries on regardless.

[sasguru]

You quote him out of context, and dismiss an important point because you don't grasp it. When he asserts that (to paraphrase) that which we perceive as reality (including the physical and mathematical laws governing that reality) is a mental construct, he is absolutely correct. The question of how we can justify our belief in the existence of an external world when we have no access thereto other than through our own internal representation thereof is one of the most fundamental questions in ontology. (It was in an attempt to resolve this question that Plato developed his notions concerning ideal Forms.)

Its a little arrogant to assume that I don't grasp it. You said that before when I dismissed the book. Perhaps I understand, but don't agree with the viewpoint.
Unless you're claiming, you and only you, know the truth and that truth is embodied in the book?
I don't think it'll be around in 200 years and that's because it is shallow. Try reading Montaignes essays for unpretentious, yet deep, philosophy - what I call pragmatic philosophy - the useful kind.

[sasguru]

It may be that the only appropriate holiday for the spoilt Jessicas and Simons of Surrey involves sleeping in a hotel on the Med until the breakfast buffet, followed by a day spent lounging on the beach between meals. However, not everybody chooses to live like a Daily Mail reader, and it doesn't seem excessively demanding to take a twelve-year-old boy on a camping and touring holiday and expect him to get up an hour or two after sunrise.

pp49-51. the man drags his son off on an excxessively cold morning and describes how uncomfortable it is for him with no mention of the 12 year old sitting behind him?

I'm sorry, you're clearly not a father, nor a motorcyclist, otherwise you would know what bone-chilling deathly cold he's talking about. i would not take any child on a morning ride.

I'm afraid NF you're reinforcing the stereotype of philosophers as completely ignorant and impractical about "real" life

[EternalOptimist]

Can you name a good answer?

I can, but i will wait till i am sober.

also the answers can be very controversial and stir up some real poo

[NickFitz]

My rough understanding is that science moved away from philosophy a long time ago, to the empirical because the former was carp and getting wrong results. More recently philosophy has tried to make inroads back into science, but science isn't really interested about the navel gazing stuff and carries on regardless. Admittedly logic and science have roots in philosophy. A common ancestor at the very least.

Isaac Newton, to take one example, regarded himself as engaging in Natural Philosophy. Science (a word which has been used in its modern sense for about two hundred years now) relates to a narrowing of Natural Philosophy to concentrate particularly on a methodological approach which derives from such philosophical schools as Aristotelianism.

Philosophy of science, as well as providing such fundamentals as the scientific method, also considers such matters as the ethics of scientific practice and the responsibilities and accountability of scientists to society at large.

[TimberWolf]

I can, but i will wait till i am sober.

also the answers can be very controversial and stir up some real poo

Sounds very useful

[NickFitz]

pp49-51. the man drags his son off on an excxessively cold morning and describes how uncomfortable it is for him with no mention of the 12 year old sitting behind him?

I'm sorry, you're clearly not a father, nor a motorcyclist, otherwise you would know what bone-chilling deathly cold he's talking about. i would not take any child on a morning ride.

I'm afraid NF you're reinforcing the stereotype of philosophers as completely ignorant and impractical about "real" life

p.48: "I see that Chris dresses warmly..."

[EternalOptimist]

I have just had a strange thought, possibly the ale.

You would never see a book called

'the science of science' - that doesnt make sense
'the maths of maths' - that doesnt make sense
'the logic of logic' - that doesnt make sense


but
'the philosophy of philosophy' - yep, i would buy that book