EU comes to Greece's rescue

[sasguru]

Please can someone point me in the direction of the clueless w**ker" smiley?

The drop in trade wasn't just because of India's independance.

God you really are limited aren't you?
I'm not talking about any short term event (war, independence) - I'm talking about the systematic exploitation by the British Raj that left India a basket case after 250 years.

[sasguru]

. Not because the business is generated by London, but because it's the capital. .

I think you'll find London does a sh!t load of business off its own back. Whether that's because its the capital or not is a moot point.
In particular the City. Edinburgh is free to compete if it wishes and to some extent does.

[Churchill]

God you really are limited aren't you?
I'm not talking about any short term event (war, independence) - I'm talking about the systematic exploitation by the British Raj that left India a basket case after 250 years.

And I was talking about the drop in trade being attributable to more than one incident.

Now, if you wish to blame all of India's ills on the British Raj then carry on - however, you might want to have a think about the roles the various competing Maharaja's had during those 250 years.

[Tarquin Farquhar]

I think you'll find London does a sh!t load of business off its own back. Whether that's because its the capital or not is a moot point.
In particular the City. Edinburgh is free to compete if it wishes and to some extent does.

Yes, London does indeed. I don't dispute that, I do dispute the (abuse of) figures and the assertion that London and the SE subsidise Scotland.

[AtW]

And I was talking about the drop in trade being attributable to more than one incident.

Now, if you wish to blame all of India's ills on the British Raj then carry on - however, you might want to have a think about the roles the various competing Maharaja's had during those 250 years.

You are barking up the wrong tree there mate.

[sasguru]

Now, if you wish to blame all of India's ills on the British Raj then carry on - however, you might want to have a think about the roles the various competing Maharaja's had during those 250 years.

No i don't, its a complex issue and Bob has to share some of the blame. However its clear that Britain got rich off the back of empire and has been in relative decline ever since.
What's that quote about " ...looking for a role ever since"?
The Germans on t'other hand, in modern times, have based their wealth on productivity.

[Churchill]

You are barking up the wrong tree there mate.

[sasguru]

Yes, London does indeed. I don't dispute that, I do dispute the (abuse of) figures and the assertion that London and the SE subsidise Scotland.

Well from your figures it seems that London and Scotland subsidise the work-shy chavs north of Watford and south of the Borders

[Tarquin Farquhar]

Well from your figures it seems that London and Scotland subsidise the work-shy chavs north of Watford and south of the Borders

I couldn't possibly comment.

[Tarquin Farquhar]

No i don't, its a complex issue and Bob has to share some of the blame. However its clear that Britain got rich off the back of empire and has been in relative decline ever since.
What's that quote about " ...looking for a role ever since"?
The Germans on t'other hand, in modern times, have based their wealth on productivity.

It is clear that since Victorian times, Britain has been living off some outside source of wealth. I wish this were not true, but the conclusion is inescapable.

The Industrial Revolution, the development of Capitalism and the early Empire-building were real creation of wealth, even if the latter was without the co-operation of all those involved. We haven't done much of that since.

From mid-Victorian times we didn't build on the Empire any more, just exploited it. By the beginning of the 20th century, we were being overtaken by the US and Germany.

After WWI we failed to recognise how bad things really were (a pattern began to develop here) and failed to invest well, so the Great Depression hit us especially hard.

WWII brought a new low economically, and again we failed to recognise how serious it really was. The Marshall Plan aid, of which we received more than twice as much as Germany, was used by us to attempt to prop up the Empire and preserve our position of importance in the world. The Germans used theirs to build modern industry.

The Empire gone, our economy went downhill even more. The next big boost was North Sea oil. The Conservative government of the 1980s used it to cut taxes. The Norwegians invested theirs. Now they have a fund for their future, and we have instututionalised expectations of tax cuts that can no longer be funded without the oil. Nor can a government of either party find cash by privatising national interests, because they are all sold off already. Brown was forced to borrow from the future (PFI) and sell off half our gold to keep raking in cash.

I don't know where the next lot of spending money is going to come from, but I'm convinced that Britain has been disconnected from the idea of spending only what it earns, for a lot longer than there have been credit cards.