1001 reasons NEVER to vote Labour

[benn0]

Socialism is particularly popular with people who would never directly help their fellow man, but they claim the higher moral ground by declaring to want to help their fellow man by taking someone else's hard earned money and redistributing it to someone else who has not earned it.

How anyone can have such a perceived hatred for someone when he wasn't actually earning or acquiring assets during the majority of the Thatcher years seems like someone who was surrounded by traditional whinging labourites or pinko students and simply swallowed the soundbites whole without challenge.

Personally, I have more respect for the hardened liebourite who votes at every election than someone who churns out the same boring stereotypical, anti-Thatcherite nonsense on one hand, and then admits he doesn’t vote because “all parties are the same”.

And can we get this "low" unemployment issue out of the way once and for all:

Unemployment in this country is much the same as it was during the 90's: the total figure has been manipulated. So when Bliar and co. respond to any attack on their quasi-socialist policies by saying unemployment is lower than Germany, since the Tories, France [and any other EU country du jour], please remember they have spent the best part of 8 years moving people onto incapacity benefits, in "education", 800,000+ into public sector non-jobs, miscellaneous, etc

And don't forget the continual atrophy of job quality during the reign of liebour - the swathes of middle managers of yesteryear now sit on the tills of Tesco's... but still register on the employed radar.

Anyone working as a contractor should feel lucky that the previous government created the environment to do that. If brown and blair had their way, the likelihood would be that you would not have the freedoms that you enjoy now and you would be forced to join the ranks of employees of big business or the state.

I grew up in a working class family during the thatcher years and it was a living hell. Lots of people I know went through the same hell. No jobs, no prospects, derelict factories scattered around the North. Whether I was working at the time was immaterial. All I know is that my old man and many like him were not. A lot of people were forced into the black economy and we are seeing the benfits of that now with the chav underclass this country has fostered. If you want to give thatcher the credit for the strong economy she also hsa to take some off the blame for the less desirable spinoffs.

I'm currently a LOT worse of under the current labour government than I probably would be under the tories but it dosn't stop me seeing the bigger picture. This country despite all its shortcomings is still a good place to live. It wasn't in the early 80s.

At no point have I claimed to be a socialist and I'm the first to admit that the labour government of the 70s was a disaster by the end. All I'm challenging are the blinkered attitude of the vast majority of this board in which all things labour are evil and all things conservative are great. They aren't, but if you don't like it why don't you **** off somewhere else? I think I know why - There isn't anywhere better for you.

I'm also still waiting for the crash this boards has been predicting for the last five years.

Was at the MEN last night watching Rod Stewart - 20,000 singing 'Maggie - I wish I'd never seen your face' - Couldn't help thinking of all you tory wannabes.

[DimPrawn]

You are Ben Elton and I claim my £5.

[BoredBloke]

"At no point have I claimed to be a socialist and I'm the first to admit that the labour government of the 70s was a disaster by the end."


The economic situation in the UK was dire at the end of the 70's. What would you have done? Would you have propped up businesses which were not viable, who had no market for their goods or would you have closed them down. Because we were in such a state the fixing which was needed was very painful for lots, but it did need fixing.

"Tories who made unemployment hell or labours who make it bearable"

WTF! Carrot and stick springs to mind. The more 'bearable' life on the dole becomes, the greater the chances of the doley staying on the dole. My understanding of benefits was that they were there to tide you over, not as a replacement for an income. For that you need to get a job.

The reason NL have made it more 'bearable' is because it is a nice vote bank also.

[benn0]

"At no point have I claimed to be a socialist and I'm the first to admit that the labour government of the 70s was a disaster by the end."


The economic situation in the UK was dire at the end of the 70's. What would you have done? Would you have propped up businesses which were not viable, who had no market for their goods or would you have closed them down. Because we were in such a state the fixing which was needed was very painful for lots, but it did need fixing.

For a start I wouldn't have gone about rebuilding the economy by riding roughshod over the poor and working classes. Thatcher encouraged redistribution of wealth from the needy to the rich. That is not the best way of going about stimulating the economy, because by definition the rich do not spend all ther money. Basic Keynesian economics. The introduction of VAT at 15% and the likes of prescription charges/poll tax hurt the working classes much more than any of NLs current legislation hurts you lot. The results was that recession dragged on far longer than it needed to. Probably a bit difficult for the wannabe middle - upper classes to understand from the comfort of their mansions though. The 'I'm alright Jack' mentalility pretty much sums thatcher up. It's a pity it was her son and not her that got lost in the desert.

[BoredBloke]

"For a start I wouldn't have gone about rebuilding the economy by riding roughshod over the poor and working classes."

You are talking bollocs. The industries which were effected were those which employed large numbers of working class people. The restructuring which HAD to take place was obviously going to effect them.

So again, how would you have tackled the UK economy back in 79 without effecting the poor and working class?

"The introduction of VAT at 15% and the likes of prescription charges/poll tax hurt the working classes much more than any of NLs current legislation hurts you lot. The results was that recession dragged on far longer than it needed to."

Ahh so the extension of VAT and the poll tax extended the 1980's recession. That is a good one.

"The 'I'm alright Jack' mentalility pretty much sums thatcher up."

As opposed to everybody being dragged down to the lowest common denominator then.

[DimPrawn]

Oh another thing about the myth that Thatcher shut down all manufacturing.

She was the one that encouraged high tech companies such as Honda, Nissan and many electronics companies to setup factories in the north and in wales to replace the one that were lost through inefficiency and unionisation.

[hammer]

"Tories who made unemployment hell or labours who make it bearable"

WTF! Carrot and stick springs to mind. The more 'bearable' life on the dole becomes, the greater the chances of the doley staying on the dole. My understanding of benefits was that they were there to tide you over, not as a replacement for an income. For that you need to get a job.

The reason NL have made it more 'bearable' is because it is a nice vote bank also.

Precisermont my son! It is bearable with labour. Do unemployed want it to be horrible like with the tories? No. So what way do you think theyll vote? Bearable or horrible?

Its not right, with the scroungers and the rest on top of them what want a job, but chuck in all thefamilies and friends of the unemployed and youve got many millions of people effected. Millions of voters.

Now, if any of you lot here with all the ansers stands up and promises to make it more horrible if they vote for you, what do you reckonll happen?

[Dundeegeorge]

Well that's fair

Precisermont my son! It is bearable with labour. Do unemployed want it to be horrible like with the tories? No. So what way do you think theyll vote? Bearable or horrible?

Its not right, with the scroungers and the rest on top of them what want a job, but chuck in all thefamilies and friends of the unemployed and youve got many millions of people effected. Millions of voters.

Now, if any of you lot here with all the ansers stands up and promises to make it more horrible if they vote for you, what do you reckonll happen?

He's right you know. We should be running the country FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE UNEMPLOYED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's exactly that attitude that makes all of us 'tory wannabees' hate you ******* socialist/communist/democrat bastards in the first place.

[DimPrawn]

Shut up Dundee and hand over your tax money you greedy selfish fecker.

Cheer,

G Brown (No. 11)

[benn0]

[QUOTE=TonyEnglish]

Ahh so the extension of VAT and the poll tax extended the 1980's recession. That is a good one.

QUOTE]

The redistribution of weatlh from the working classes (who spend everything they earn because they have to) - to the rich was what extended the 80's recession.

You obviously never experienced the sense of despair prevalent throughout working class Britain in the 80s. There were ways to drag the country out of recession without penalising the poor. It's just that thatcher never chose to use those options because it didn't suit her and her cronies. She is now a very rich woman - I wonder why?

The irony of the situation is that you lot on here constantly whinge about the state of modern day Britain yet 1. You're still here, and 2. you're pretty well off.

There's no lowest common denominator about it - The electorate vote in the government and your beloved tories are obviously not up to the job at the moment.

I don't think they pay much tax in Saudi - Maybe you could all go and live there?