1001 reasons NEVER to vote Labour

[benn0]

They are not my new labour.

I didn't vote in the last election.

I'm merely pointing out that for many people, things aren't currently as bad as they were under the Twatcher years. Me included. The way some of you go on it's as if you're all living in mud huts and eating rice.

You pay too much tax. Boo f@cking hoo.

[John Galt]

A lot of hard workig lower paid families were a damned sight worse of under thatcher.

If you want to work these days you can - Something you could never say under the thatcher government.

The champagne is on ice for when she pops her clogs.

Rubbish! As I said, things were more difficult for a while as she had to sort out Labour's mess but in reality things were far better. Unemployment is a high now as then it's just that the figures have been manipulated to include those on invalidity benefit and as Bob said the Government itself has created employment. The man in the street is no better off at all as the obscence levels of personal debt prove. Taxation is extremely high but the taxes are stealth taxes which do not seriously affect the net figure in the pay packet which is all most people are worried about. We are on the edge of a massive recession because this Government has lied through its teeth and manipulated figures in such a way that, if they were a normal company, they would not pass an audit. Everyone is reliant on their property which, NL have said, is a huge asset for the man in the street - only if you sell it and only if you sell it for more than your mortgage and only if you will be buying a cheaper property. As for hard working lower paid families - they are only better off because their income is so heavily subsidised by the State that they are actually worse off if they work! But the systems of tax credits, benefits, pensions credits etc cost the rest of us a fortune and they don't work. We have had debate on this very board recently about the millions taken fraudulently. This country will not get back on its feet again until handouts are discouraged and entrepreneurialism(?) is encouraged. Then, if we are very lucky, we may have a stable and sustainable economy.

So there

[BoredBloke]

benn0 - how old are you?

[BobTheCrate]

I'm merely pointing out that for many people, things aren't currently as bad as they were under the Twatcher years.

Well of course some people were worse off. That isn't really saying anything at all is it ?

The way some of you go on it's as if you're all living in mud huts and eating rice.

Not quite. What is being outlined in this thread does not concentrate on tax and jobs.

It also outlines massive and coordinated Gov't deceit on a scale we've not seen before.

It outlines a wretched Gov't obsessed with control that has now manifested itself into a strong desire to remove very hard won legal protection and freedoms.

It outlines a Gov't that has systemmatically politicised every single aspect of the civil service including the Police, MoD and intelligence services, not to mention Customs & Excise and Inland Revenue.

[benn0]

benn0 - how old are you?

37

[benn0]

Well of course some people were worse off. That isn't really saying anything at all is it ?

Not quite. What is being outlined in this thread does not concentrate on tax and jobs.

It also outlines massive and coordinated Gov't deceit on a scale we've not seen before.

It outlines a wretched Gov't obsessed with control that has now manifested itself into a strong desire to remove very hard won legal protection and freedoms.

It outlines a Gov't that has systemmatically politicised every single aspect of the civil service including the Police, MoD and intelligence services, not to mention Customs & Excise and Inland Revenue.

Governments are by nature obsessed with control. The word 'govern' should give yo a clue.

Deceit - Mmmm. The tories always told the truth didn't they.

The world is a different place now to what it was 20 odd years ago. It's much more unstable and unpredictable. With that in mind I can't say I'm too disappointed with my lot in life. I certainly don't spend all day whinging about how unfair the system is like most people on here.

[hammer]

Hold on. benno might talk like an arse but he's got a point about unemployment.

Back in the old days unemployment was high and we all new it because loads of people had nothing to do and no money.

Now people may have useless jobs, or benefits for being in capacity,or whatever, but theyfeel better, not on the scrap heap, and they keep spending money to keep the economy churning around. Isnt that better than people being depressed and have got no money to spend like in the old days under Thatcher?

I do'nt agree with benno about the rest of Thatcher though. She did a diamond job sorting it all out.

[BobTheCrate]

Deceit - Mmmm. The tories always told the truth didn't they.

No they probably didn't always tell the truth. But there is a world of difference between that and a sustained coordinated campaign of deceit. And Thatcher did not take this country into war with Argentina off the back of lies, highly organised deceit and deliberate mis-information.

Governments are by nature obsessed with control. The word 'govern' should give yo a clue.

No they are not all obsessed with control. This goes to the heart of the difference between Tory and Socialist. The Tory theme has always been to allow 'people' to control their own lives. Without my attacking one or tother, the Socialist theme is for it to control what 'people' do and don't do.

Back in the old days unemployment was high

Yes it was. That was on the back of a great deal of political/industrial change and one of the worst global recessions in living memory.

And again, if it weren't for the current unsustainable levels of public sector employment, I doubt too many people would think unemployment is low. The price for this massive PS employment will be realised soon.

[John Galt]

Hold on. benno might talk like an arse but he's got a point about unemployment.

Back in the old days unemployment was high and we all new it because loads of people had nothing to do and no money.

Now people may have useless jobs, or benefits for being in capacity,or whatever, but theyfeel better, not on the scrap heap, and they keep spending money to keep the economy churning around. Isnt that better than people being depressed and have got no money to spend like in the old days under Thatcher?

I do'nt agree with benno about the rest of Thatcher though. She did a diamond job sorting it all out.

Oh dear

[BoredBloke]

Surely you remeber the winter of discontent and the basket case of an economy we had in 1979.


The Labour government that came to power in 1974 (as a minority administration from February and with a wafer thin majority from October) faced difficult economic circumstances, with inflation and unemployment both running at post-war record levels. The government also 're-negotiated' the UK's terms of entry into the EEC and had this endorsed in the 1975 referendum. in April 1976, Prime Minister Harold Wilson was succeeded by Jim Callaghan.

Callaghan had been Chancellor and Home Secretary in the 1964-70 adminstration and served as Foreign Secretary from 1974. He remains the only Prime Minister to have served in all three 'great offices of state' before entering Number 10.

Callaghan's parliamentary position became increasingly precarious. By April 1976 the government had lost its formal majority. The immediate reasons were a by-election defeat, the defection of two of Callaghan's backbenchers to form a new 'Scottish Labour Party' and the defection of the maverick John Stonehouse.

However, Callaghan managed to survive, mainly because the other opposition parties did not seem ready to unite to defeat him. By March 1977, after further by-election losses, he agreed to a parliamentary arrangement with David Steel and the Liberal Party which became known as the 'Lib-Lab Pact'.

The Lib-Lab pact ended in August 1978. The pact had been unpopular with some activists in both Parties, and in any case, an election was expected soon.

Callaghan could have gone to the country in the Autumn of 1978. The economy was improving and the Government had recovered some of its popularity. There was considerable speculation and controversy in the Cabinet about when the best time to go would be. Callaghan sought to end the speculation by singing an old Marie Lloyd song 'Waiting at the Church' to the TUC Congress. This was misunderstood in some quarters and he put the country's mind at rest in a broadcast in which he confirmed that he would not call an election until 1979. He was expecting that another round of pay policy would demonstrate to the electorate the success of his economic policy.

In the event, the pay policy did not hold and the scenes of industrial unrest were to be remembered as the 'winter of discontent'. Callaghan hoped to keep public sector pay claims under 5%. When tanker drivers forced the Government to give them a 14% raise, the flood gates opened. By the end of January, water workers, ambulance drivers, sewerage staff and dustmen were involved in industrial action, heralding the 'Winter of Discontent'.


The Sun blasts Callaghan as out of touch
On returning from an international economic conference in Guadeloupe, the Prime Minister showed himself to be out of touch with the mood of the country. When asked about the growing industrial crisis facing Britain, Callaghan denied any crisis existed, leading to The Sun headline 'Crisis? What Crisis?'

When the devolution referenda were held, Wales voted 'no' and while Scotland voted 'yes' the majority was insufficient to make the decision binding. On the same day, 1 March 1979, the Government lost two by-election seats to the Conservatives. The SNP now withdrew its support from the Government and a vote of no confidence (on an SNP motion on devolution) was passed on 28 March. Callaghan called the general election for 3 May.