An Englishman's home is his castle : Who said British Justice is a shambles ?

[Moscow Mule]

AtW, you give the British people too much credit.

The fact is, the vast majority of the population CANNOT BE TRUSTED with a spoon, let alone pepper spray or a gun.

[AtW]

The fact is, the vast majority of the population CANNOT BE TRUSTED with a spoon, let alone pepper spray or a gun.

Oh come on man, CS gas is harmless - if any thing defensive electroshockers should have been made legal here, that's very good non lethal way to defend against multiple attackers.

[NickFitz]

Are we supposed to be getting worked up about the fact that the Daily Mail is apparently defending somebody who attends a mosque?

[Gonzo]

How the FK can you defend yourself if you have no access to legal proven means of defence? It cracks me up that even CS gas is not allowed in this country - it's like rape heaven or something? What's so wrong with women being able to have a CS/pepper spray with them? This country went totally unreasonable on proven effective means of self defence.

sas alluded to this early in the thread, so did RC, but the point is that the rule of law and not the rule of the person with the biggest stick is fundamental to "the British way of life".

If the rule of law is not protecting the citizens then the solution is to fix it, not to let the citizens carry sticks.

[AtW]

sas alluded to this early in the thread, so did RC, but the point is that the rule of law and not the rule of the person with the biggest stick is fundamental to "the British way of life".

Rule of the law won't save your life in such circumstances - it can only (at best) punish the guilty AFTER you are dead. Even if you arm the police they can't be everywhere at the same time, so the only way out is to arm responsible law abiding citizens. This does not remove the law - usage of firearms should be lawful, subject to detailed investigation in each case.

[Diver]

Oh come on man, CS gas is harmless - if any thing defensive electroshockers should have been made legal here, that's very good non lethal way to defend against multiple attackers.

electroshockers!!

I can imagine the UK's teenage and young adult population going equipped with these. Can You?

Would certainly make mugging and assault a lot easier if you could incapacitate your victim first.

[AtW]

Would certainly make mugging and assault a lot easier if you could incapacitate your victim first.

No it's not making it easier - searching victim, leading fingerprints DNA etc is much riskier than making them hand you over the money or asking them for a PIN.

Electroshockers are legal in Russia, and I think Germany and many other countries. Same goes for CS/pepper gas - even opressive country like Russia where dictators are afraid to arm population recognised that CS/peppergas should be available. You can say it can make muggings easier too, but it had no such effect.

[RichardCranium]

Would certainly make mugging and assault a lot easier if you could incapacitate your victim first.

Apparently it doesn't work like that. It will be the same as with guns. The potential victim gets their shot in first, that way the crime never happens.

Apparently.

And if we had guns, there wouldn't be any crime. Like in the good old US of A.

[AtW]

Apparently it doesn't work like that. It will be the same as with guns. The potential victim gets their shot in first, that way the crime never happens.

Criminals will have to content with victims having firearms, it would be more difficult for them to escape, and they will ALWAYS have risk of being shot. Since criminals are in minority and most hardened of them committ crimes often, it means that statistically sooner or later they'll get shot and relief the justice system from expense of jailing them.

[EternalOptimist]

Apparently it doesn't work like that. It will be the same as with guns. The potential victim gets their shot in first, that way the crime never happens.

Apparently.

And if we had guns, there wouldn't be any crime. Like in the good old US of A.

thats a good point Alexi.
These cricket bat boys were overpowered first and tied up, despite the fact that they were armed with some serious willow.
If it had been guns on both sides, they would still have been overpowered, then presumably they would have chased the attackers down the street and someone would have ended up getting plugged