Contractors are Thatchers children

[Spacecadet]

How can you have class mobility and a classless society?

Try reading my post properly

[thunderlizard]

In my view the excesses of capitalism are represented more by the opportunism of recruitment agents and board level ruthlessness. The difference now is that these power excesses were exploited by the socialists and the Unions in a way that killed off enterprise. Today the same power is in different hands, but at least contractors are free (unless labour gets back in) to ply their trade, and the rest of us can create almost any business that we like.

so, agents are Blair's babies?

[DodgyAgent]

Uh... this has never existed and never will, you cannot buy class. A toff who has lost everything is still upper class, and a working class lottery winner is still working class. Hyacinth Bucket, no matter how hard she tries, will not move from working/middle class to upper class.

This depends upon your definition of class. I am not sure that your definition (by birth) is relevant. Class today is much more defined by wealth and aspiration. There is no longer much of a working class, many of who now are aspirational middle classes who want to own their own homes and enjoy choice about where they live, who they work for and holiday abroad. This group now includes plumbers, brickies and most blue collar workers. It is this mobility that is the crowning achievement of Thatcher despite labours efforts to put a stop to it through the education system (attack on Grammar schools) and the tax and welfare system (getting more people out of work and to become welfare dependent).

Those who seek to vilify Thatcher "spin" the concept of personal responsibility and freedom into selfishness and greed. These people are uncomfortable at not having people who they can look down on and patronise with their empty "socialist" gestures which include:

Voting labour
Cclaiming to care about poor people
Hating Thatcher
Never challenging the public sector (polly Toynbee springs to mind)

All gestures that dont involve any personal sacrifice.

[DodgyAgent]

so, agents are Blair's babies?

The worse insult we could be given is to be told that we are no better than Harriet Harperson

[Mich the Tester]

gestures that dont involve any personal sacrifice.

If socialists gave a stuff about poor people then a socialist government would be completely unnecessary to achieve their aim of helping the poor and downtrodden. If all lefties were to voluntarily give up between 10 and 20% (typical EU lower and higher social security contribution levels) of their income to provide for the poor through local charities then the poor would be helped more effectively and the rest of us wouldn't have to pay such huge taxes. It's because socialists lack the moral backbone to follow their words with actions that they force their ideology on others.

[Spacecadet]

If socialists gave a stuff about poor people then a socialist government would be completely unnecessary to achieve their aim of helping the poor and downtrodden. If all lefties were to voluntarily give up between 10 and 20% (typical EU lower and higher social security contribution levels) of their income to provide for the poor through local charities then the poor would be helped more effectively and the rest of us wouldn't have to pay such huge taxes. It's because socialists lack the moral backbone to follow their words with actions that they force their ideology on others.

Socialists generally want the poor and down trodden helped with someone elses money

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Dodgy

[threaded]

Socialists generally want the poor and down trodden helped with someone elses money

Actually, I don't think they care a jot about the poor and down trodden beyond their usefulness as cannon fodder. The 'someone elses' money they want for themselves. They may publicly say something different, which is for the benefit of the proles they wish to use, but every such economy following socialist principles exhibit graft etc. etc..

[Sysman]

so, agents are Blair's babies?

Spawn of the Devil then?

It certainly seems apt for some.

(Not you Dodgy)

[minestrone]

Most lefties are just folk from a middle class upbringing with a chip on their shoulder who promise people unacheivable things to get them on their side.