Would you hire a contractor?

[NotAllThere]

Hire a permie? Are you mad. Yeuch.

[Tarquin Farquhar]

By coincidence, I worked out yesterday how much I would cost a company as a permie rather than as a contractor, and came to the conclusion that as a contractor I should be ashamed of myself for cheapening the market.

[joey122]

By coincidence, I worked out yesterday how much I would cost a company as a permie rather than as a contractor, and came to the conclusion that as a contractor I should be ashamed of myself for cheapening the market.

Care top provide ball park numbers??

A perm at 60K might end up at 70 after pension and bonus

Theres still 60K left here unexplained

[joey122]

Care top provide ball park numbers??

A perm at 60K might end up at 70 after pension and bonus

Theres still 60K left here unexplained

Just worked out for Nov a contractor on 500 a day would bill for 17K (inc VAT)

That is more then some people earn a year....

Are you seriously saying that contractors are more cost effective then perms??

Seriously??

[RichardCranium]

Are you seriously saying that contractors are more cost effective then perms??

Seriously??

I'm sure you a contractor-hating permie; all you posts have been to that effect.

Of course contractors can be more cost effective.

If you employ a contractor for year after year, then you should not have employed a contractor.

If you have a nine month project to run requiring specialist technical skills, then bring in specialists and get rid of them when the contract ends. Employing permies to do it would not be cost effective.

[joey122]

I'm sure you a contractor-hating permie; all you posts have been to that effect.

Of course contractors can be more cost effective.

If you employ a contractor for year after year, then you should not have employed a contractor.

If you have a nine month project to run requiring specialist technical skills, then bring in specialists and get rid of them when the contract ends. Employing permies to do it would not be cost effective.

Understood but my post was around contractors in finance (which is where I work) staying for years and years at one company or coming and going...

Generally speaking a specific project is not usual - Normally theres a bulk of work to be done and support for the forseeable future.

Employing contractors in this case is in my opinion dumb. Now I am not complaining as I am earning double what I was before but I am still struggling to understand how managers justify this

[d000hg]

Well in a 52 week year, you have say 2 weeks of public holidays. Plus 6 weeks of vacation. Plus what, a week on average of sick pay? That needs to factored into your calculations, before you even consider an employer has to pay NI and perhaps 5% extra on top of your salary for your private pension.
In banking, there's also a bonus to consider... what % of salary would that typically be?

Even then, on a month-by-month basis a contractor should probably end up more cost to the company. But they buy the company flexibility... no redundancy payments or notice periods.

[Zippy]

Even then, on a month-by-month basis a contractor should probably end up more cost to the company. But they buy the company flexibility... no redundancy payments or notice periods.

... or bitching or sex discrimination cases

[joey122]

Well in a 52 week year, you have say 2 weeks of public holidays. Plus 6 weeks of vacation. Plus what, a week on average of sick pay? That needs to factored into your calculations, before you even consider an employer has to pay NI and perhaps 5% extra on top of your salary for your private pension.
In banking, there's also a bonus to consider... what % of salary would that typically be?

Even then, on a month-by-month basis a contractor should probably end up more cost to the company. But they buy the company flexibility... no redundancy payments or notice periods.

I have many regrets in life but my biggest regret is probably working as a grad for 35K at a large bank in Canary Wharf and NEVER taking one sick day off.

I feel completely screwed

[Tarquin Farquhar]

Just worked out for Nov a contractor on 500 a day would bill for 17K (inc VAT)

That is more then some people earn a year....

Are you seriously saying that contractors are more cost effective then perms??

Seriously??

VAT on my invoices does not cost the client anything, if they are VAT registered.

My own calculation was based on my own position, which involves expenses of travel from my base to client's site in other country, expenses which are included in the contract rate. Obviously as a permie doing the same thing, someone is covering those expenses, whether it be the employer or the employer's client. Your case may be different, and I am not trying to analyse your case, I am comparing like for like in my case. The evidence of Heathrow Airport on Monday mornings suggests that my case is quite common.

But whatever the case, you are falling into exactly the standard fallacy, by overestimating billing days by ignoring public holidays, annual leave, sick time, training time (and, I may say, daily rate in these times), and by totally forgetting about many substantial costs that a permie brings and a contractor normally doesn't, including Employers NI, training, pension, bonus.

Your own figures may vary, but your "A perm at 60K might end up at 70 after pension and bonus" is frankly ludicrous. Do you even know how much Employers NI costs?