UK manufacturing - why is it disappearing?

[Tarquin Farquhar]

Engineers and scientists have always been paid rubbish in the UK compared to those in finance and law.

PS Fitted a new bath at my last place which was a semi. Banged groove so bath would fit snugly at the top and all the neighbour's tiles fell off. Result.

Ho Ho. Thank F it's not just me.

I'm crap at DIY but I will make an attempt. Biggest problem is that you're doing most things for the first time. Once you've put in a few baths or kitchens you get better at it.

Or at least I do. I'm not sure that the average British workman does, or ever has. Holmes to Watson in "The Crooked Man":

Sorry to see that you've had the British workman in the house. He's a token of evil.

[Sysman]

Which isn't going to last forever!

I recently came across a site quoting the annual salary of a senior developer at HP in India as close to a million rupees. According to xe.com that works out at 20,960 USD. That ain't exactly the 500 bucks a month we've been hearing about. Yes, I think prices there will sooner or later equalise, especially for the brightest ones who will get jobs elsewhere anyway.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

UK manufacturing - why is it disappearing?

Greed and short termism over a long period from Unions, management, banks, governments and shareholders.

[Board Game Geek]

UK manufacturing - why is it disappearing?

Many factors to blame, such as management, bankers, government, etc.

However, it comes down to one group at the end of the day.

Consumers.

It is consumers who control the market place. In turn, the management of the company need to pre-empt and adapt to the consumer's needs.

We live in an increasingly throw-away society, in which quality isn't as important at it used to be, at least to the larger, cash-strapped population.

If it breaks, throw it away, or ebay it, and get another one.

With quality out of the window, the only thing left to compete on is price.

You could have once argued that "After Sales Service" was a selling point, but who needs that when the goods are cheap and can be thrown away ?

After Sales Service is only of value to high value items, and then ONLY for a limited time before the punter thinks "Sod it, I've had this 2 years now, and there's a better model out anyway. I could get it repaired, but I might as well spend the cash on the new model".

So with After Sales and Quality gone, the only thing left is Price.

And we all know that the UK cannot compete against countries which have much lower labour and living costs.

This is why I have always advocated "protected markets".

Let each country manufacture the majority of goods explicitly for itself, for its own people. This would stimulate the local economy and ensure employment nationally. Yes, items would differ in price around the world, but then again, they already do anyway and no one seems to mind.

Look at it another way. If the cost of labour in the UK was a pittance, then we'd have a lot of companies wanting to manufacture here, in order to export abroad. Whilst we may be doing the industrialists a favour, we certainly are not doing ourselves or our worldwide cousins a favour. We're taking work away from them and crippling their economies.

However, according to Globalisation, this is "fair".

I can't see anything fair at all about it. Unless you mean that it's "fair" to the multinationals. I'm sure it is. Exploitation is always fair to the Exploiter. In most cases, more than "fair".

Additionally, if we are retasking our industry to grow, nurture and manufacture domestically, then that's a sizable reduction in CO2 emissions. Even with the raw materials we do need to import and a few we need to export, there is a reduction in the air/sea miles for finished goods (which go locally).

My fear is that it looks increasingly likely that the slash and burn march of Globalisation will finish wringing the last ounce of cheap labour out of India, before moving on to the next 3rd world country in abject poverty and starting all over again. It matters not that India is left a dry husk, which will then collapse upon itself, because ethics and morals are not part of the equation.

Wash, rinse, repeat, until you leave behind a string of shattered nations, bathed in social unrest and poverty, with the growing realisation that they've been well and truly had.

Add a dash of media-fuelled resentment for other nations, a sprinkle of hatred for some local ethnic or religious underdog group to shoulder the blame, and before you can say "Whoops Apocalypse !" WW3 is on the doorstep.

(Well, another possible route to WW3, although the ME does seem the most likely powder keg for that one)

Sweet dreams,

[threaded]

The Germans still make stuff and they aren't cheap so it can't all be about far east sweatshops.

Assuming we'd like to make things again, what are the other reasons for the loss of manufacturing and what can we do about it?

Many years ago there was a friends plan B. They had a little place employing a few peeps that built things. They wanted to expand. Getting planning permission was quite a nightmare, and attracted the attentions of some not nice people who were 'in business' with some of the local councillors. When they would not 'co-operate', they, and then friends and family, started getting grief from the tax and customs and the fire-brigade for fire precautions and health and safety and several other groups, for absolutely no good reason. So for a quiet life they closed up shop and moved the whole thing to China.

I would say hi-level villainy aided and abetted by a system that tends to hide corruption is also a reason for the demise of manufacturing in the UK.

Ever wonder how it is that some no-name on raising through the political ranks becomes so very wealthy so quickly in the UK...

[TimberWolf]

UK's last piano manufacturer outsourced

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8285257.stm

[Fred Bloggs]

UK's last piano manufacturer outsourced

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8285257.stm

Jeez, another industry completely obliterated. The UK's last TV manufacturing plant closed a few weeks ago too. The UK's only wind turbine factory closed a couple of months ago. WTF is going on?

I have had a lifetime of work in the UK petrochemical industry which has been in a state of managed decline since the early 80's. It's now virtually obliterated too. The break up and loss of ICI accelerated the decline in the UK hugely. Having avoided the nuclear industry all my life, I'm in that industry now, it's all that's left. Nuclear is slow, boring and the rates are 20% lower than in petrochem.

[MrMark]

Many years ago there was a friends plan B. They had a little place employing a few peeps that built things. They wanted to expand. Getting planning permission was quite a nightmare, and attracted the attentions of some not nice people who were 'in business' with some of the local councillors. When they would not 'co-operate', they, and then friends and family, started getting grief from the tax and customs and the fire-brigade for fire precautions and health and safety and several other groups, for absolutely no good reason. So for a quiet life they closed up shop and moved the whole thing to China.

I would say hi-level villainy aided and abetted by a system that tends to hide corruption is also a reason for the demise of manufacturing in the UK.

Ever wonder how it is that some no-name on raising through the political ranks becomes so very wealthy so quickly in the UK...

When you describe a scenario like that, it does seem like there's been a long-term conspiracy to do away with working people's prospects in the UK. There is an "enemy within" but it isn't the unions.

[TimberWolf]

Time to storm the government?

[minestrone]

The real fact is that we are crap at manufacturing, our work is generally second rate and we are apatehic towards our employers.

When was the last time you heard a British workie say "I love my job, I love my company and I want to give them back the very best that I can give"?