Betrayed

[EternalOptimist]

My son was diagnosed with Aspergers recently amd your description of Aspergers isn't what I recognise in my son. In my son I see a boy struggling to make sense of things which he simply can't comprehend. He's not some window licking dribbling wreck, he's academically very bright with a cracking sense of humour but struggles to understand a number of things that most people take for granted.

My best mate doesn't/cant understand concepts. He is exceptionaly intelligent, fantastic sense of humour, great use of language. Good at sums - sh1t at anything abstract.

If it can't be seen or held in the hand, he just doesn't get it. Plus he thinks that people are winding him up or just trying to be fashionable (by going along with the herd)

e.g.
I was involved in a quality improvement process , object to reduce waste in an automated welding process.
His take was that this was just an exercise to identify some workers who could be sacked. He just would not accept there could be a thing called a process.

strange - but I know which areas to keep away from now

[Incognito]

However, it must be observed that the Septics have never ratified their part of the treaty, so this is entirely one way.

From the UK to the US...

You can imagine the fuss if we tried to extradite a Septic under similar circumstances.

Just the tiniest of factual inconsistencies in that statement. The US Senate ratified the treaty in 2006.

The reason everyone seems to be up in arms about this treaty is they consider it unfair because the Americans can request a UK citizen’s extradition without presenting evidence behind the request, yet the UK has to present evidence of a reasonable standard of the case against a US citizen. This has got absolutely nothing to do with the UK being the US lapdog. The UK also has an agreement with Canada, Australia and New Zealand regarding reciprocal agreements which means that the UK doesn't have to present any evidence with the request. The reason behind the US lack of reciprocity is that the United States has a constitutional protection which prevents it from extraditing a US citizen based purely on the word of a foreign government.

[expat]

1. The Americans do not apply this treaty in a reciprocal fashin so it is one-way. IMHO regardless of any particular cases we should suspend our application of the treaty pending American reciprocity. Other countries do such things, for example many countries do have extradition treaties with the US but will not apply them in cases where the person extradited might face the death penalty.

I might add that the US is very reluctant indeed to extradite people to the UK, They have consistently refused to extradite known IRA terrorists on the grounds that their trial in the UK would be "political". I find it hard to see how we can treat the USA as allies and equals, far less as equally civilised, in those circumstances.

2. As ace00 says, he is likely to be tried as a terrorist. I see no evidence of terrorist activities on his part, nor any suggestion whatever from the UK that he might be guilty of such; so I do not think that our government should then hand him over to another state for a terrorist trial. In fact I think it would be treasonous for HMG to hand over one of Her Majesty's subjects in this way.

3. Even if he is fit to stand trial, he should stand trial here for things he did here, not in a foreign land. It is a nonsense to suggest that the Internet teleported MacKinnon to North America during his activities.

4. If he might not be fit to stand trial, we should establish whether or not he is so fit before delivering him to a foreign power.

[RichardCranium]

I was involved in a quality improvement process , object to reduce waste in an automated welding process.

He just would not accept there could be a thing called a process.

I know which areas to keep away from now

Yeah, anywhere with automated welding equipment by the sound of it!

[Incognito]

My son was diagnosed with Aspergers recently amd your description of Aspergers isn't what I recognise in my son. In my son I see a boy struggling to make sense of things which he simply can't comprehend. He's not some window licking dribbling wreck, he's academically very bright with a cracking sense of humour but struggles to understand a number of things that most people take for granted.

I'm sorry if that's how my description came across, that's not how I meant it. I was diving with a lad who had Aspergers and every now and again you'd notice him totally detach from the conversation with a fixed gaze. He'd snap back into it when you directly addressed him. That was my point about the daydreaming example. The guy was perfectly capable, but you could see he had difficulties in comprehending certain social concepts. Dive tables were alien to him as he couldn't comprehend why you'd need to do a stop. The maths wasn't a problem, it was the reasoning behind it.

[expat]

Just the tiniest of factual inconsistencies in that statement. The US Senate ratified the treaty in 2006.

The reason everyone seems to be up in arms about this treaty is they consider it unfair because the Americans can request a UK citizen’s extradition without presenting evidence behind the request, yet the UK has to present evidence of a reasonable standard of the case against a US citizen. This has got absolutely nothing to do with the UK being the US lapdog. The UK also has an agreement with Canada, Australia and New Zealand regarding reciprocal agreements which means that the UK doesn't have to present any evidence with the request. The reason behind the US lack of reciprocity is that the United States has a constitutional protection which prevents it from extraditing a US citizen based purely on the word of a foreign government.

We should apply the Golden Rule to them, and do as they would do unto us.

[Moscow Mule]

The UK also has an agreement with Canada, Australia and New Zealand regarding reciprocal agreements which means that the UK doesn't have to present any evidence with the request.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I think it's pretty disgusting that your country will allow you to be extradited to another country without any evidence being presented to a court in your own country.

[darmstadt]

Brings back memories of Comecon when the septics said you can't sell computers to East European countries otherwise you'll be put in prison, in the USA, sod which country you come from.

[Incognito]

Do you even work in IT?

I guarantee you I am infinitely more qualified than you to discuss this subject considering I work in the 'industry.' I'm a member of the security architecture board for my product specialisation. Why are you so qualified on the subject?

This guy targeted private infrastructure in the US and piggybacked off them to attack US state IT infrastructure. He clearly knew what he was doing and attempted to hide his trail. This wasn't a guy being bored and deciding to do a sniff on the internet.

[Incognito]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I think it's pretty disgusting that your country will allow you to be extradited to another country without any evidence being presented to a court in your own country.

I'm not commenting on the ethics behind it, just purely the law.