I back this strike !!

[Mich the Tester]

I'm talking about green shoots like these, and these, and these.

Ah yes, I see. Ugly, stupid and guaranteed to lead to permanent economic decline, but if it gets slimey barstewards elected…

[ratewhore]

Ah yes, I see. Ugly, stupid and guaranteed to lead to permanent economic decline, but if it gets slimey barstewards elected…

Just out of interest, and not that I'm disagreeing with you of course, but is there any empirical evidence to show globalisation works as the theoretical modelling suggests it should?

[Francko]

Let's leave the EU outside this (even if it obviously isn't).

For decades you destroyed most industries in your country to a point where you have acute skill shortages more or less everywhere apart from civil servants and finance jobs. Now isn't it a bit too late after countries like Germany or Italy financed most of these sector with their own taxes? Isn't it a bit hypocritical saying that now you have to save "british jobs" for british workers? The same jobs that you, yourselves, dismantled abroad because deemed of not being enough lucrative.

[bobspud]

There are plenty of Brits working all over Europe. The idea that Italians are all put up in the same B&B paid crap, is complete and utter tosh. The Italians are paid well.

Are they paid more than the UK guys would have had been?

[Mich the Tester]

Just out of interest, and not that I'm disagreeing with you of course, but is there any empirical evidence to show globalisation works as the theoretical modelling suggests it should?

Does anything really work according to the theoretical models? Credit risk investing didn’t work according to the models, and neither did Soviet central planning. I don’t know if the problem in our economies is really ‘globalisation’, but perhaps management models, based on Taylorist command and control and a limited focus on short term profit, which are no longer suited to the economic, social or cultural environment and don’t allow for the creative and innovative forces we need to compete. We don’t know what works; we can only learn the lessons of what has failed. I don’t think ‘globalisation’ is really a phenomenon that can be modelled, governed, or even chosen from a list of theories. It’s an inevitable consequence of the improvements in communications and transport of the last 200 years; make the best of it or suffer its consequences.

[BlasterBates]

I've no idea Bobspud, but Italian aren't poorly paid, and by the time they've put them up I'm sure it doesn't make much difference. In italy the price of goods are exactly the same as they are in Britain. But in any case this not about cheap Italians coming over to Britain it is about an Italian Engineering company offering a superior solution to renovating a refinery.

If they wanted to I'm sure British workers could apply for jobs and live in their own barges in the Humberside estuary.

[Mich the Tester]

I've no idea Bobspud, but Italian aren't poorly paid, and by the time they've put them up I'm sure it doesn't make much difference. In italy the price of goods are exactly the same as they are in Britain. But in any case this not about cheap Italians coming over to Britain it is about an Italian Engineering company offering a superior solution to renovating a refinery.

If they wanted to I'm sure British workers could apply for jobs and live in their own barges in the Humberside estuary.

Unfortunately, this is probably closer to the truth. One can think of several reasonable criticisms of the Italian government, but at least in the north of Italy there is a very highly skilled technical workforce supporting, not entirely coincidentally, a very strong manufacturing sector. The word ‘ingegnere’ commands respect in Italy, whereas in Britain, most especially among the English middle class, the height of ambition among parents seems to be for young Olly or Arabella to become a ‘merchant wbanker’ or a ‘corporate lawyer’.

Congratulations to EO, whose daughter is to become a paramedic; an honourable profession staffed by people who make a real, tangible contribution to society and deserve the respect of all of us.

[ratewhore]

Does anything really work according to the theoretical models? Credit risk investing didn’t work according to the models, and neither did Soviet central planning. I don’t know if the problem in our economies is really ‘globalisation’, but perhaps management models, based on Taylorist command and control and a limited focus on short term profit, which are no longer suited to the economic, social or cultural environment and don’t allow for the creative and innovative forces we need to compete. We don’t know what works; we can only learn the lessons of what has failed. I don’t think ‘globalisation’ is really a phenomenon that can be modelled, governed, or even chosen from a list of theories. It’s an inevitable consequence of the improvements in communications and transport of the last 200 years; make the best of it or suffer its consequences.

So what you're saying is 'I don't know' but, at the same time, 'make the best of it or suffer its consequences'.

OK

[Mich the Tester]

So what you're saying is 'I don't know' but, at the same time, 'make the best of it or suffer its consequences'.

OK

Yes, I think that sums it up. None of us know, we can only make a best guess based on rational arguments and then follow our choice. Isn’t that always the case in life?

[ratewhore]

Yes, I think that sums it up. None of us know, we can only make a best guess based on rational arguments and then follow our choice. Isn’t that always the case in life?

It seems to me that suffering unknown consequences is a bit 'suck it and see'. I have no problem with this approach as long as the person telling me that isn't hitting me with a big stick saying there is no alternative.

There's always an alternative, like employing UK workers on a UK based project. If there is nothing to prove or disprove this is the best way to go forward, no-one can tell me (or more importantly, those UK workers), that they are wrong...