Cuba, have we really done any better than them?

[AtW]

But without a free, independant press and free speech to protect those who wish to voice their concerns how can we believe it.

Exactly.

USSR had very good education too.

Apart from history that was falsified to suit Kremlin kriminals.

And apart from natural things like teaching ones rights, freedoms, how to act independently etc.

And also economics was all "socialist" one.

Basically purpose of education in such countries is to brainwash people while teaching them some skills that may make them useful to the regime - it's really good thing because when you teach someone maths and stuff like that they can verify, then those people would believe other things they can't check like history.

[Purple Dalek]

Exactly.

USSR had very good education too.

Apart from history that was falsified to suit Kremlin kriminals.

And apart from natural things like teaching ones rights, freedoms, how to act independently etc.

And also economics was all "socialist" one.

Basically purpose of education in such countries is to brainwash people while teaching them some skills that may make them useful to the regime - it's really good thing because when you teach someone maths and stuff like that they can verify, then those people would believe other things they can't check like history.

And it is different in the UK state system?

[Francko]

Exactly.

USSR had very good education too.

Why do we need to take USSR as an example of communism or socialism? That is a totally different regime. Why not taking scandinavian countries then? Or why instead of taking USA as an example of capitalism we take Spain or Switzerland? You will find that even if the principles are the same, politics is not applied in the same way and therefore make any comparison impossible.

[AtW]

And it is different in the UK state system?

I did not study in UK secondary school, but I do read Western history books and in my view they are much more accurate when it comes to subjects like WW2 or stuff about previous Govts in this country.

I did study in Uni here and would say that Soviet system (again apart from economics/history parts in its time - it was already gone when I studied it in there) is much more solid - students here seem to think that being a student is just a few years to get drunk etc rather than study.

[gingerjedi]

Is Russia better for the average citizen since they threw off their shackles or did it simply allow people to leave and find a better life elsewhere?

[AtW]

Why do we need to take USSR as an example of communism or socialism? That is a totally different regime.

No, it's not totally different - ideologically it was motivated by USSR in a very big way.

My sister was in Cuba about 10 years ago and said it was very very poor country - whatever education they teach in schools there does not go far when it comes to independent judgement of need to overthrow Castros and hang them on the nearest palm. Such educational system (like in Soviet Union) is designed to keep population under control.

[AtW]

Is Russia better for the average citizen since they threw off their shackles or did it simply allow people to leave and find a better life elsewhere?

Unfortunately 70 years of brainwashing in Soviet Union and killing those who did not agree with regime resulted in lots of people with seriously screwed up brains who vote for people who were responsible for millions killed in their own country.

I'd say former Soviet republic are better off now (Ukraine).

[M_B]

It is a poor country and that is largely thanks to the American trade embargo.

I have travelled around Cuba (freely) a number of times (its a beautiful and exceptionally friendly country in my experience) and yes its true that the citizens are mostly tired of economic poverty and the ones I met and talked to were either looking for a way out or for a change in government to cure that.

However from the conversations I had they didnt feel that their system of government had failed as such, rather they felt that their system of government could not work while the Americans opposed it.

Their education and health system is far better than other comparable countries and even compared to other larger capitalist countries (Brazil for example) then those at the bottom have a far, far better standard of living in Cuba.

Ultimately the social experiment that is Cuba will fail because just like Nicaragua, Panama and Haiti, the Americans want it to.

[expat]

My concern is how reliable the statistics are for health-care and education in a society that doesn't have a free press.

If the Cubans are dying like flies and sanitation in hospitals is poor, how are we ever going to know? How do we know those westerners who go there are seeing the reality and not the special hospitals reserved for western tourists?

I've been there and stayed with ordinary people. Health care is very good, I mean exceptional. I never saw starvation-level poverty (or crime, but a policeman on every corner probably helps there). The standard of living is rather low by our standards, or perhaps I should say the standard of income is very low, but everyone makes a living. Lack of ability to compete economically with other people probably does many good things for society.

It is a communist state, with all the good and bad things that that implies.

[AtW]

Ultimately the social experiment that is Cuba will fail because just like Nicaragua, Panama and Haiti, the Americans want it to.

It's a pretty reasonable desire not to have communist run regimes that could host nuclear missiles nearby provided by unfriendly USSR/Russia.