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"I've never had a job"

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    #51
    Originally posted by Mich the Tester View Post
    If the middle classes are driven to poverty and desperation by the current economic shambles, will we all have an immediate answer to the problems of poverty and deprivation? I ask because we all seem to know how this woman in Glasgow should have improved her circumstances, but will our education and our nice accents and good taste really help us if we end up impoverished by some wbankers hubris?
    You're doing it again - good points - and as for all the "you can do anything if you try" merchants, that's just rrrrs - full marks for effort but some things jist ain't going to happen

    Comment


      #52
      America

      Originally posted by snaw View Post
      Clearly you've never been to a third world country and seen the poorer parts up close ...
      America is not a third world country. My point is that how much benefit is derived from the system as it stands now. IE How much better off are the worst off here than in the US.

      Granted I have not seen American poverty up close, so I admit I may have overestimated the conditions there, but from my vantage point it doesnt look that much worse than the worst off here.

      I have also had enough exposure to 3rd world poverty to realise that abject destitution, starvation, lack of medical and sanitary facilities is a different issue to what is being discussed here.

      I, like you have NFI what the solution is.
      There are no evil thoughts except one: the refusal to think

      Comment


        #53
        Originally posted by sunnysan View Post
        America is not a third world country. My point is that how much benefit is derived from the system as it stands now. IE How much better off are the worst off here than in the US.

        Granted I have not seen American poverty up close, so I admit I may have overestimated the conditions there, but from my vantage point it doesnt look that much worse than the worst off here.

        I have also had enough exposure to 3rd world poverty to realise that abject destitution, starvation, lack of medical and sanitary facilities is a different issue to what is being discussed here.

        I, like you have NFI what the solution is.
        I've seen 3rd world poverty and I've seen US poverty; while it's possible to exaggerate, there are parts of the US which I'd classify as 3rd world. OK, so I'm not talking Ethiopian style starvation, but how bad do you think it should be? Parts of US cities like Detroit and Philladelphia simply aren't any longer a part of the 1st world. The rates of literacy, life expectancy among men, violence and almost inescapable poverty in those places are not much different to Lagos or Calcutta. Peopl are just a bit fatter.
        And what exactly is wrong with an "ad hominem" argument? Dodgy Agent, 16-5-2014

        Comment


          #54
          Originally posted by sunnysan View Post

          I have also had enough exposure to 3rd world poverty to realise that abject destitution, starvation, lack of medical and sanitary facilities is a different issue to what is being discussed here.
          I'd call that real poverty, as opposed to the Blair style poverty where you don't have a tumble dryer...
          Older and ...well, just older!!

          Comment


            #55
            I think the big concern is that the woman's family probably would have been quite hard working at one point and in a couple of generations they are now totally state dependant. Once you lose it it’s very hard to get back.

            Comment


              #56
              Originally posted by sunnysan View Post
              America is not a third world country. My point is that how much benefit is derived from the system as it stands now. IE How much better off are the worst off here than in the US.

              Granted I have not seen American poverty up close, so I admit I may have overestimated the conditions there, but from my vantage point it doesnt look that much worse than the worst off here.

              I have also had enough exposure to 3rd world poverty to realise that abject destitution, starvation, lack of medical and sanitary facilities is a different issue to what is being discussed here.

              I, like you have NFI what the solution is.
              Actually you got me there. I read the original post as Philippines, not Philadelphia. Had NFI what you were on about till I went back and re-read it.
              Hang on - there is actually a place called Cheddar?? - cailin maith

              Any forum is a collection of assorted weirdos, cranks and pervs - Board Game Geek

              That will be a simply fab time to catch up for a beer. - Tay

              Have you ever seen somebody lick the chutney spoon in an Indian Restaurant and put it back ? - Cyberghoul

              Comment


                #57
                So

                Originally posted by Mich the Tester View Post
                I've seen 3rd world poverty and I've seen US poverty; while it's possible to exaggerate, there are parts of the US which I'd classify as 3rd world. OK, so I'm not talking Ethiopian style starvation, but how bad do you think it should be? Parts of US cities like Detroit and Philladelphia simply aren't any longer a part of the 1st world. The rates of literacy, life expectancy among men, violence and almost inescapable poverty in those places are not much different to Lagos or Calcutta. Peopl are just a bit fatter.
                So would most here agree, that the amount of money spent on keeping people like the lot mentioned in article "out of poverty" is money well spent?

                Do the board feel that it is the better of two evils?
                There are no evil thoughts except one: the refusal to think

                Comment


                  #58
                  Originally posted by ratewhore View Post
                  I'd call that real poverty, as opposed to the Blair style poverty where you don't have a tumble dryer...
                  So you would like to see the unemployable starved to death, with all the disease and violence that that would bring with it? Come on, it costs almost bugger all to provide a 16 year old single mother with a roof, basic sanitation and food, when you compare it to the amount of money that’s wasted on ID databases, internet tracking databases and bureaucratic nonsense. The real waste of your taxes is in government bureaucracy. The consequences of leaving hopeless people to their own devices would be much worse and more expensive than just accepting that some people, sometimes through their own fault, aren’t equipped to look after themselves and the only thing we can do is try and improve matters for their offspring.
                  And what exactly is wrong with an "ad hominem" argument? Dodgy Agent, 16-5-2014

                  Comment


                    #59
                    No worries

                    Originally posted by snaw View Post
                    Actually you got me there. I read the original post as Philippines, not Philadelphia. Had NFI what you were on about till I went back and re-read it.
                    Well, to be honest your mistaken assertions have actually raised a more interesting argument re US vs UK
                    There are no evil thoughts except one: the refusal to think

                    Comment


                      #60
                      Originally posted by Mich the Tester View Post
                      So you would like to see the unemployable starved to death, with all the disease and violence that that would bring with it? Come on, it costs almost bugger all to provide a 16 year old single mother with a roof, basic sanitation and food, when you compare it to the amount of money that’s wasted on ID databases, internet tracking databases and bureaucratic nonsense. The real waste of your taxes is in government bureaucracy. The consequences of leaving hopeless people to their own devices would be much worse and more expensive than just accepting that some people, sometimes through their own fault, aren’t equipped to look after themselves and the only thing we can do is try and improve matters for their offspring.
                      Oh please, don't be retarded.

                      Supporting those who can't is the right way for society to function. Supporting those who won't is not. Just don't tell me someone is in poverty because some number crunching says they don't have something over 50% of the population have, such as a tumble dryer.
                      Older and ...well, just older!!

                      Comment

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