Recruiter Awards for Excellence 2009

[snaw]

You are descending into nonsense, for example, your use of the word "happy" suggests that we are somehow being indulged. We are there because we fit into the market, as do you.

So who has rattled your cage today?

Just a turn of phrase, I'll invoke my right of substitution and use satisfied instead.

The point is still valid. No cage rattling, just passing the time till the finishing bell sounds

[Board Game Geek]

Can anyone explain the point of having and paying for an internal HR department, if they don't screen, vet and interview candidates for the company ? Isn't that one of their jobs, under the purview of HR ?

[expat]

You don't fit into my market; you are a prime example of outsourcing. Companies decided they don't want the overheads of recruitment so look to the agencies. They set a rate they believe is economically viable, you (not personally) then attempt to rape the poor contractor at the other end to improve your margin. Agencies are of no benefit to the contractor.

Agencies are a kind of outsourcing. Yes, I like that.

[DodgyAgent]

Can anyone explain the point of having and paying for an internal HR department, if they don't screen, vet and interview candidates for the company ? Isn't that one of their jobs, under the purview of HR ?

http://www.cipd.co.uk/default.cipd

If you have the patience to read through all this you will see that there is a lot of work involved in HR. Recruitment is just a small part of HR

[DodgyAgent]

You don't fit into my market; you are a prime example of outsourcing. Companies decided they don't want the overheads of recruitment so look to the agencies. They set a rate they believe is economically viable, you (not personally) then attempt to rape the poor contractor at the other end to improve your margin. Agencies are of no benefit to the contractor.

Contractors are not poor and being raped is as close as most of them get to sex. Show some gratitude.

[Board Game Geek]

If you have the patience to read through all this you will see that there is a lot of work involved in HR. Recruitment is just a small part of HR

Thanks Dodgy, though it does beckon the question : Why use an external Rec Cons to do the work the in-house HR are paid to do in the first place ?

[expat]

Thanks Dodgy, though it does beckon the question : Why use an external Rec Cons to do the work the in-house HR are paid to do in the first place ?

They are about to get an outsider to do IT for them. Why not start by getting an outsider to do the HR involved in finding them?

[snaw]

They are about to get an outsider to do IT for them. Why not start by getting an outsider to do the HR involved in finding them?

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[expat]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Custodes ipsos.

[DodgyAgent]

Thanks Dodgy, though it does beckon the question : Why use an external Rec Cons to do the work the in-house HR are paid to do in the first place ?

That is an interesting question.

In house recruitment can work and does where skills requirements are pretty straightforward. However as soon as a company tries to set up its own recruitment facility for difficult skills in engineering and IT then it doesnt work.
Why?

Firstly an inhouse facility is a monopoly which means if a hiring manager doesnt like the people dealing with his requirements then he will undermine them by trying to shoe horn his favourite agent onto the scene.

secondly in house recruiters are paid anyway whether they perform or not (eventually they get found out and get canned), whereas agencies dont earn anything unless placements are made. This powerful dynamic means that 3rd party agencies are hungrier.
Thirdly agencies have a mix of clients with more jobs and they therefore aggregate more and better Cvs because they have multiple opportunities for each candidate.. not so in house.
Fourthly if you think agencies are bad with feedback companies with in house recrutment are more interested in saving themselves work (best you get is an automated response) by hiding behind complex time consuming on line application processes than going out and making it easy for people to apply for a job with them. Also a lot of candidates (perm that is) like to chat about their careers, in a way that inhouse people are simply not interested in.

A lot of engineering companies such as Bechtel, Chicago Bridge &Iron, Kvaerner, Carillion, Fluor have their own agencies. Oracle used to have its own agency. What happens is that these entities either end up running the processes with a PSL of external suppliers (because they cannot fulfil their own company's requirements), and or they split off and end up being sold.

They rarely work because they cannot please all the people all of the time themselves.