Dragonfly

[The Lone Gunman]

Basically: You can take on a contractor to carry out certain tasks or to provide an end product.

You can tell your plasterer what you want plastered, you can tell him to what standard you want it plastered, you can agree with him (mutually) when it will be plastered, you can check his work is to the standard required.

Once you supervise his ongoing work and start controlling the way he mixes the plaster and uses his trowel & float, he becomes an employee.

I would suggest (from my understanding of what was reported) that the checks on dragonfly fall far short of mixing plaster and using trowel.

I would also suggest that your substitution argument is a bit one eyed. To examine like for like then it would have to be a one man builders outfit. If he sent along another builder I would not accept him without checking his competence as I have the original builder.

[mrdonuts]

are ph contracts ever ir35 compliant?

[swamp]

Dragonfly had a contract with the AA for many years, which must be an easy target for HMRC. A string of six or twelve month contracts at different clients would make things much harder for them, it mitigates the risk to some extent.

[VectraMan]

I would suggest (from my understanding of what was reported) that the checks on dragonfly fall far short of mixing plaster and using trowel.

I agree. Being "spot checked" is mentioned. It suggests that anyone working anywhere where there's any kind of formal peer review process, or just general quality control or even a coding standard, could well be screwed by this. A bit of a grey area as always, but I think this is bad news for us developers.

[chef]

a £99k tax bill, would they expect that upfront, i.e within 30 days or would you expect them to allow the co. to spread it out?

im just thinking if i had that level bill then i'd be dead in the water if it was 30 day payment

[Diver]

I agree. Being "spot checked" is mentioned. It suggests that anyone working anywhere where there's any kind of formal peer review process, or just general quality control or even a coding standard, could well be screwed by this. A bit of a grey area as always, but I think this is bad news for us developers.

Bad news for all contractors, not just IT.
They have now drawn a very fine line that is difficult to see and very easy to cross.
Wouldn't it be nice if HMRC would draw us all up example contracts that would be binding to all parties including them.

[Bob Dalek]

The Government & its agencies are trying to promote business in the UK, aren't they? I ask, as it looks, and has looked for years, now, like they are trying to destroy the UK economy in any way they can. Recession, tax bollocks, etc., yet £10 billion on the Olympics, which will never, ever, ever make a profit, ever.

Vote Tory - got to be worth a punt.

[Lockhouse]

If that was me I'd sue the AA for employment rights just to make a point. Wouldn't cost much, not much chance of winning, but two things have to be highlighted.

1) The unfairness of IR35.
2) The failure of agencies when it comes to making contract amendments.

Nothing will change until a client is made to pay.

[Diver]

If that was me I'd sue the AA for employment rights just to make a point. Wouldn't cost much, but two things have to be highlighed.

1) The unfairness of IR35.
2) The failure of agencies when it comes to making contract amendments.

Nothing will change until a client is made to pay.

Excellent Idea.

[wurzel]

I'd be f****d on the basis of this outcome. It blows apart advice I've taken re IR35 on a few of the gigs I've done in the past 3 years - not 99K but more than I could possibly stump up without selling my house. I wonder how they expect people to pay up in these circumstances? Could they make you sell your house etc to pay for it or would they give you time to pay it off?