Some industries better nationalised than privatised?

[BlasterBates]

Baiscally the question is do you use the railways a lot. If you do then you'll be pro public ownership as your ticket will be subsidised by the tax payer, if not you pay taxes for something you don't use.

This is the problem with public ownership, the more that's in public ownership the more you pay even if you don't use the service.

The other factor is motivation to run a service profitably and efficiently. Most managers in the state sector don't have the motivation, they can't be sacked, so why bother. They just go cap in hand to the tax payer.

[lilelvis2000]

<cough>

There's more subsidy to the railways now than there was before they were privatised...

And the amount of money extracted from the water industry is a national disgrace.

Not to mention that the electrickery industry's "dash for gas" has emptied the north sea gas fields much more quickly... so we're now depending on imports.

Brilliant moves, all.

Most of the Water companies are foreign owned are they not? Given the average brit pays 20% more for nearly everything, we're a hen wot lays the golden eggs to them.

I've often wondered why Britain doesn't have more hydro electric stations. Renewable and not subject to greedy energy traders. Best thing which can be done IMHO is try and get coal as clean as possible and use that. If it can be made as clean as gas it would be worth it.

I also thought part of the gas problem was that there is no storage facilities in the UK for gas. So it gets sold to France et al, who then sell it back to us at a higher price. Genius. The term "disjoint thinking" comes to mind.

[Cyberman]

The only credit she deserves is for managing to persuade people that they should pay twice for things and that privatising things would lead to competition. You keep quoting BA which is fair enough, do you have any other examples of how privatisation has "on balance" been a success?

As for Thatcher "carving through the bloated bureacratic[sic] jungle", even the most cursory inspection of the facts (as opposed to blind rabid hero worship) would dispel this - not least of which because she is the Mother of the modern Quango. BTW she wasn't averse to nationalising banks in order for her spiv friends not to be embarrassed was she - it was only industries she didn't like that had to close.

She also nationalised the water companies who had up until then been owned by local authorities so that they could be "privatised" although of course this was just another example of a private monopoly - I remember that odious cretin Ridley questioned about competition in the Commons and saying "well I suppose people could drink Perrier".

British Leyland was a millstone around taxpayers' necks with constant wildcat strikes and 'Friday' vehicles so selling that off was a good idea.

BT was so inefficient when nationalised and is much improved and profit-making, paying taxes instead of being a burden, and of course we now have competition for services such as Broadband, which if we only had BT would not exist. Can you imagine how rubbish UK PLC would be with only BT as a provider of mobile phones etc ? Think it through.

The railways are much improved with modern rolling stock, lines are being upgraded(West Coast for Virgin), and we now have a Channel Tunnel that Maggie 'built' that gives us access to Paris in just over 2 hours. Some of this money still comes from the public sector but freeing up burdens in other areas through privatisation allows this expenditure. Numbers using the railways are vastly in excess of what they were even 10 years ago. If you actually used those old train services you would have the experience to know this.
Regarding London Underground, I think is obvious that this needs private investment. Perhaps the Tories will have to tackle the problem because it really is creaking at the seams!!

Water, Gas and Electricity each have a regulator and it is their duty to oversee that the consumer is not exploited. With regard to Gas I think there is a prima facie case that it is using a virtual monopoly to fleece the consumer and New Lie is failing to act quick enough. With proper regulation, privatisation works in these areas.


As I said before, and will reiterate, on balance privatisation is good for the consumer and the country and has turned bloated burdens on the taxpayer into taxpayers!!





WELL DONE MAGGIE !!

[expat]

Baiscally the question is do you use the railways a lot. If you do then you'll be pro public ownership as your ticket will be subsidised by the tax payer, if not you pay taxes for something you don't use.

Oh right, and if you use the roads the same goes for them. Your motorways are subsidised by the taxpayer.

[expat]

... we now have a Channel Tunnel that Maggie 'built' that gives us access to Paris in just over 2 hours.

Maggie built the tunnel? Nothing to do with state-run SNCF then?

Funny how the statist French managed to run trains at high speed on their stretch from the start. And build the trains, if it comes to that.

[expat]

BTW the reason that I feel compelled to post one short rebuttal after another, it that some of you lot insist on posting one brazen PR lie after another in your paeons of praise.

[sasguru]

BTW the reason that I feel compelled to post one short rebuttal after another, it that some of you lot insist on posting one brazen PR lie after another in your paeons of praise.

Forgive them for they have been brainwashed.

[Bob Dalek]

The railways are much improved with modern rolling stock, lines are being upgraded(West Coast for Virgin), etc.

Having narrowly avoided the derailment near Hatfield a few years ago (I took the preceding train, and arrived in bonny scotland to learn that I'd ridden over the same rails), I have to say "No way!" to that rose-tinted view. The railways (I'm thinking track) are not fabulous, and the token gesture examination of the tracks following the Hatfield thing was laughable, unless one uses the train a lot; then it's a bit unsettling. Also, why would nationalization of the big stuff like rail, water and fuel, now that the unions are all but dead, automatically be infested with Scargills? It wouldn't.

[DodgyAgent]

Forgive them for they have been brainwashed.

Dared to disagree

[DodgyAgent]

Maggie built the tunnel? Nothing to do with state-run SNCF then?

Funny how the statist French managed to run trains at high speed on their stretch from the start. And build the trains, if it comes to that.

The reasons the French are relatively efficient in delivering public services is because they have a civic pride that works well as long as it is on their terms. The French culture of service is not market driven as it is in the UK.

The downside is that most services are delivered in this way and that the concepts of choice and the free markets are alien to them. What the French are having difficulty with is getting companies to invest there, and much as theere is a great deal to be admired by their system it wont last.