If I were Prime Minister....

[Peoplesoft bloke]

If giving this age group some discipline reduced crime and prison occupation by even 20% over forthcoming years and gave them some work ethics (therefore paying taxes and not claiming dole), it would probably pay for itself, and eradicate a lot of hoodies and chavs off the streets?

Exactly right.

Yes - up to the point of "if". It wouldn't,and is therefore exactly wrong. People are really deluding themselves on this.

[Platypus]

Yes - up to the point of "if". It wouldn't,and is therefore exactly wrong. People are really deluding themselves on this.

Evidence?

I'd say that the anecdotal evidence is that when we did have national service, things were better, young people had more respect and committed fewer crimes. But TBH I can't find any stats to back this up

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Evidence?

I'd say that the anecdotal evidence is that when we did have national service, things were better, young people had more respect and committed fewer crimes. But TBH I can't find any stats to back this up

I don't have any - mine's opinion, like yours. Since the last National Service person was discharged in 1963, I doubt you have clear adult memories of that "golden age", but no doubt you, like I, rely on what you are told by people who did. My parents went to dances in the 1950s which would almost always end in a fight. These weren't reported and didn't trouble the courts, but they did happen. I could recount plenty of tales of crime and disorder from that "golden age" of National Service.

The Krays. They did National Service according to the BBC website - it didn't teach them any respect for society or the law at all.

All that aside - no-one has answered the question about compulsion. Think about how many people are driving around without tax, insurance etc. Now think about how many people would ignore National Service and imagine what kind of resources you'd need to force them to comply. Now think about all those Daily Mail leaders about the kids who get away with it and you have a recipe for a daft, impractical, unenforcable policy which penalises the innocent and ignores the guilty. I am very surprised that New Labour hasn't already pinched the idea from the BNP and the Tories, who have both talked about it.

[BrilloPad]

The Krays. They did National Service according to the BBC website - it didn't teach them any respect for society or the law at all.

That is just not true! They always used to shake your hand before putting the boot in.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

That is just not true! They always used to shake your hand before putting the boot in.

Admittedly this is from Wikipedia, but that doesn't make it automatically wrong

Their behaviour in prison was allegedly so bad that in the end they were given a dishonourable discharge from the service; for the last few weeks of their imprisonment, when their fate was a certainty anyway, they ruled the holding room they were in. They threw tantrums, upended their latrine bucket over a sergeant, handcuffed a guard to the prison bars with a pair of stolen cuffs, and burned their bedding. Eventually they were discharged, but not before escaping from the guardhouse and being recaptured by the army one last time.

[DimPrawn]

Admittedly this is from Wikipedia, but that doesn't make it automatically wrong

Their behaviour in prison was allegedly so bad that in the end they were given a dishonourable discharge from the service; for the last few weeks of their imprisonment, when their fate was a certainty anyway, they ruled the holding room they were in. They threw tantrums, upended their latrine bucket over a sergeant, handcuffed a guard to the prison bars with a pair of stolen cuffs, and burned their bedding. Eventually they were discharged, but not before escaping from the guardhouse and being recaptured by the army one last time.

Were they failed "asylum seekers" at a new £30M detention centre?

[BrilloPad]

They threw tantrums, upended their latrine bucket over a sergeant, handcuffed a guard to the prison bars with a pair of stolen cuffs

WEll - yes - but they did shake their hand first. Not like those yobs of today. No civility.

[BrilloPad]

Nailing your head to the floor...

They only did that the once! And the victim did give their Mother a snide look! What do you expect?

[stackpole]

If I was this prime minister I'd throw my c***ting self off the top of Canary Wharf.

C***.

[Waldorf]

1. Make anyone doing community service, wear bright orange jump suits so we can see that they are taking their punishment.

2. Prison sentences to be completed in full.

3. Simplify the tax system.

4. Bring back corporal punishment in schools.

5. Introduce a "Bad Lads Army" for repeated yobs who need sorting out.

6. Fixed penalties for litter, enforced by litter wardens with clout.

7. Give Northern Ireland back to the Irish.

8. Look after the armed forces with decent pay and accommodation.

9. Reform the benefits system, cap the total amount someone can have, so ending cases of some receiving £30K in hand outs.

10. Abolish IR35!