Next General Election

[Peoplesoft bloke]

You obviously haven't been around long. Thatcher reduced the top level of income tax from 60% to 40% soon after coming to power. In the good times the Tories have always tended to lower taxes whereas in good times Labour continue to raise them. Just look at what is going on now!!!

Top rate of tax on unearned income was 98% under Labour in the early seventies, which says it all really.

Oh I see - you meant reduced some taxes and put some others up. Maybe you might like to read this:

http://www.accountancyage.com/accoun...lies-statistic

I bet I've been around longer than you.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

You obviously haven't been around long. Thatcher reduced the top level of income tax from 60% to 40% soon after coming to power. In the good times the Tories have always tended to lower taxes whereas in good times Labour continue to raise them. Just look at what is going on now!!!

Top rate of tax on unearned income was 98% under Labour in the early seventies, which says it all really.

OK pop quiz

Lowest 25% income tax rate abolished.
Windfall tax on Bank profits and North Sea oil introduced.

Who did this and when?

And you seem to have a very loose definition of "soon after coming to power" - the 40% top rate didn't come until 1988, by which time, your darling Maggie had been in power for 9 years.

[Cyberman]

Oh I see - you meant reduced some taxes and put some others up. Maybe you might like to read this:

http://www.accountancyage.com/accoun...lies-statistic

I bet I've been around longer than you.

You missed the point. The key words were 'in the good times'. In the good times taxes have been lower under the Tories. Labour continues to up taxes in the good times and we still have a massive black hole in finances due to overspending.

Thatcher had to raise taxes initially in coming to power because of Labour's economic incompetence which meant that there was a black hole in 1979. Denis Healey even had to go to the IMF for billions in funds in 1976 !! There was also a recession to contend with.

Around 1990 taxes were raised under John Major, again due to a recession, so that is justified. What cannot be justified is the current state of affairs under New Lie whereby taxes are continually increased in good times. That is unsustainable and as Cameron stated, 'they should have been fixing the roof while the sun shone'.

The Tories will have to raise taxes when they come to power, but this will be to fill the black hole left by the profligate New Lie. After about two years or so, taxes will come down, but you can blame those initial rises squarely on New Lie. The stats will often show that tax rates rose under the Tories, but the causes you have to look slightly deeper at!!

[Gonzo]

Well this is a question that we should ask the experts about.

So according to Ladbrokes the odds of each party winning the next GE are

Liberal Democrats - 100 to 1
Labour - 9 to 4
Conservatives - 1 to 3



Says it all really.

There was one serious gambler that bet a load of cash on Labour to win the 1997 General Election at 1 to 7. He reckoned it was free money, so fill yer boots now while you can get better odds.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

You missed the point. The key words were 'in the good times'.



In the good times taxes have been lower under the Tories.

I look forward to seeing your evidence for this (clue - "evidence" in this context doesn't include things told you by parents, the man in the pub or the Daily Mail)

Labour continues to up taxes in the good times and we still have a massive black hole in finances due to overspending.

Thatcher had to raise taxes initially in coming to power because of Labour's economic incompetence which meant that there was a black hole in 1979. Denis Healey even had to go to the IMF for billions in funds in 1976 !! There was also a recession to contend with.

Around 1990 taxes were raised under John Major, again due to a recession, so that is justified.

So when Thatcher's (or was it Major's) economic miracle didn't work and we all faced 15% interest rates it was fine for John Major to put up taxes (and introduce a raft of new ones) just at the time we were all feeling the pinch?
If you are still thinking that the burden of taxation fell under Thatcher, I invite you to read the Accountancy Age article I linked to - that makes it very clear that no such thing happened anywhere except in the minds of her legion fans and revisionist historians.

What cannot be justified is the current state of affairs under New Lie whereby taxes are continually increased in good times. That is unsustainable and as Cameron stated, 'they should have been fixing the roof while the sun shone'.

So why wasn't John Major fixing it in the 90's?

The Tories will have to raise taxes when they come to power, but this will be to fill the black hole left by the profligate New Lie.

Not according to their top brass, they won't - do you know something they don't, or are they liars?

After about two years or so, taxes will come down, but you can blame those initial rises squarely on New Lie. The stats will often show that tax rates rose under the Tories,

Because they did - bonus question - when was tax freedom day (the day when we stop working for the government) at its latest point in the year ever?

but the causes you have to look slightly deeper at!!

Governments of all colours tax us to bits - some are cleverer about it than others - some shift the burden (Both Thatcher and the current lot have shifted the burden to poorer people and away from the rich), but they all do it. The "low tax Tories" myth is exactly that.

I notice you didn't respond to my point about your claim that Thatcher reduced the top rate of income tax "soon" after being elected (soon in this case taking nine years).

[Cyberman]

The bottom line is that we have been through a 'boom' period under New Lie but they have continued to increase taxes. This shows that they are out of control, and in over 30 years of being a taxpayer I have had enough of it. If they stayed in power long enough we would be paying 100% of our wages in tax, and then where is the incentive to work.

The Tories have a philosophy of lower taxes that incentivises a work ethic and investment. My work ethic under this government has been so eroded that I now prefer not to work.

Good luck to those that prefer a high tax existance. Keep voting Labour!!

[Peoplesoft bloke]

The bottom line is that we have been through a 'boom' period under New Lie but they have continued to increase taxes. This shows that they are out of control, and in over 30 years of being a taxpayer I have had enough of it. If they stayed in power long enough we would be paying 100% of our wages in tax, and then where is the incentive to work.

The Tories have a philosophy of lower taxes that incentivises a work ethic and investment. My work ethic under this government has been so eroded that I now prefer not to work.

Good luck to those that prefer a high tax existance. Keep voting Labour!!

No reply to any of the factual points I see.

Dyed in the wool Tories just keep chanting the mantra that they are "the party of low taxation" even in the face of the compelling evidence to the contrary, but unfortunately, as Goebbels ultimately found to his cost, just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it true, even if you can fool significant parts of the population.

I am so pleased not have nailed my colours to any partisan dogma so extensively that I could seriously claim the government has upset me so much I can't bothered to work - what a laugh.

The truth is that all governments rob us collectively (although as I said, they often move the burden about). Fuel price "escalator" rises of way above inflation, airport departure tax, insurance premium tax - all introduced by the "party of low taxation".

If the Tories have to tax us more to sort out the mess left by Labour, what was John Major doing in 1992 - sorting out the mess left by Lawson and Thatcher? They weren't Labour last time I looked.

I am not saying all this from any love of the current administration. I didn't vote for them and I won't be voting for them next time. I will be voting Tory on the single issue of ID cards, and I sincerely hope the Tories aren't lying about their policy on that.

[Old Greg]

Does anyone remember what the Tories' role was in introducing / increasing VAT? I seem to recall that decreases in top rate tax were paid for more or less with VAT receipts. Might have got the details wrong.

[Churchill]

Does anyone remember what the Tories' role was in introducing / increasing VAT? I seem to recall that decreases in top rate tax were paid for more or less with VAT receipts. Might have got the details wrong.

Good idea imo.

Don't tax what people earn, tax what they spend...

[expat]

Governments of all colours tax us to bits - some are cleverer about it than others - some shift the burden (Both Thatcher and the current lot have shifted the burden to poorer people and away from the rich), but they all do it. The "low tax Tories" myth is exactly that.

Hear hear