Harman at it again.

[Lucy]

Fair enough, but this is my bug-bear. Why does our value system value working higher than bringing up children? I think that that is crazy.

This comes from someone that doesn't have any children of their own, and doesn't even like them that much.

Human Beings have become the most successful animals on the planet over the past 200,000 years. I rate that more highly than the past 40 years of tinkering.

Gonz, I don't see any evidence of this, I am all for self-responsiblity and freedom of choice, the women who choose work and choose children often do it because they want a lot more than women from previous generations. I think chasing material success is another story, but, ultimately it is a choice, and more importantly women don't have to work in the areas that are rife with bullies and boys clubs.

Re your final point that is your personal value, and it is a free society that ensures you can have it, that is paramont.

[Gonzo]

Gonz, I don't see any evidence of this, I am all for self-responsiblity and freedom of choice, the women who choose work and choose children often do it because they want a lot more than women from previous generations. I think chasing material success is another story, but, ultimately it is a choice, and more importantly women don't have to work in the areas that are rife with bullies and boys clubs.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for choice, and I abhor all discrimination, on all grounds.

But it seems to me, that as a society, we have come to devalue the role of being a mother who brings up children, and made it subserviant to having a career.

I think that that is a bit of a wrong turn.

It is not a popular idea clearly, and hasn't been for a while, but I think that aspiring to be someone that focuses on bringing up a family, is infinately more valuable than dedicating their life to doing stuff with computers.

I disagree that we should take thinking the opposite is the optimum way around for granted.

[Lucy]

Don't get me wrong, I am all for choice, and I abhor all discrimination, on all grounds.

But it seems to me, that as a society, we have come to devalue the role of being a mother who brings up children, and made it subserviant to having a career.

I think that that is a bit of a wrong turn.

It is not a popular idea clearly, and hasn't been for a while, but I think that aspiring to be someone that focuses on bringing up a family, is infinately more valuable than dedicating their life to doing stuff with computers.

I disagree that we should take thinking the opposite is the optimum way around for granted.

How would you change it, other than having your own family and supporting your wife to stay at home?

As I see it, the government does more than enough to support child-rearing, I don't think I should be forced to pay for other people to have children looked after while they work.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'society', do what ever you like, but don't expect anyone else to pay for it.

[DodgyAgent]

Fair enough, but this is my bug-bear. Why does our value system value working higher than bringing up children? I think that that is crazy.

This comes from someone that doesn't have any children of their own, and doesn't even like them that much.

Human Beings have become the most successful animals on the planet over the past 200,000 years. I rate that more highly than the past 40 years of tinkering.

If only it were as simple as a straight choice between career and bringing up children. For a start the two are not diametrically opposed, infact many mothers who work are better mothers than those who stay at home looking after the kids. Secondly women often need to work because they need the money with which to send their kids to for example a decent school (mrs DA is one such individual).

Without wishing to sound superior (which I am anyway ) but you cannot possibly understand anything on the subject of children unless you have children of your own.

[dang65]

As I see it, the government does more than enough to support child-rearing, I don't think I should be forced to pay for other people to have children looked after while they work.

I guess in a few years time those children won't think they should be forced to pay for your pension. It all goes round.

The money you pay towards other people's childcare and education is of benefit to you in the end, as was all the tax previous generations paid towards your own care and education.

[Lucy]

I guess in a few years time those children won't think they should be forced to pay for your pension. It all goes round.

The money you pay towards other people's childcare and education is of benefit to you in the end, as was all the tax previous generations paid towards your own care and education.

I'm not relying on a state-funded pension for my retirement, are you?

That may well be the case, or not, I would like to have the choice, not be forced to pay for it.

BTW my parents paid for my education.

[sasguru]

BTW my parents paid for my education.

Bet they regret the waste of money now

[Diver]

Bet they regret the waste of money now

Stopit!! it hurts

[dang65]

BTW my parents paid for my education.

But they presumably didn't pay for the education of the thousands of people you encounter throughout your life who are able to read and write and add two numbers together, let alone look after your health, repair your car, fly you away on holiday, complete your tax returns, provide you with electricity and gas etc etc.

We'd be in a bit of a mess if we relied on private education to train up all those people.

The wealthy do rely on the poor, you know, vulgar as that may sound to you.

[ratewhore]

As I see it, the government does more than enough to support child-rearing...

You're quite right of course, particularly if you are a single mother. Check the benefits system out and see how much better they do than a 2 parent family.