Why Labour will win the next election

[Lucy]

Forget what the majority wants, the majority burned witches, voted for Hitler and jailed homosexuals. I really don't care if people need to have their hands held by some beaurorat and be told where they can send their kids to school or which doctor they can go to, but I do mind that they inflict that on the rest of us.

There is the problem with your 'logic'.

[expat]

The reason why libertarianism has never worked in the long run (and it has been tried, most notably in the early years of the US) is that, just like communism, it goes against basic human needs and drives. The urge for power is too strong for politicians to resist, and so whatever their initial motives, in the end government grows too large.

The difference is that the human needs and drives that run contrary to the success of communism are noble: liberty and individuality, the desire for freedom, the urge not to be owned.

The human needs and drives that run contrary to the success of libertarianism are base: the lust for power and greed on the part of politicians, the desire to own others. These are evil and to be resisted, and what better way than by espousing the libertarian cause?

(PS I am well aware that the original drive behind communism was highly noble: Marx's burning protest against the inhuman crimes of 19th-century capitalism will secure him forever a place among the liberators of mankind.)

[sasguru]

Forget what the majority wants, the majority burned witches, voted for Hitler and jailed homosexuals. I really don't care if people need to have their hands held by some beaurorat and be told where they can send their kids to school or which doctor they can go to, but I do mind that they inflict that on the rest of us.

There is the problem with your 'logic'.

Please remind me where I talked about the majority and where I supported hand-holding. Silly bint.

[Lucy]

The difference is that the human needs and drives that run contrary to the success of communism are noble: liberty and individuality, the desire for freedom, the urge not to be owned.

The human needs and drives that run contrary to the success of libertarianism are base: the lust for power and greed on the part of politicians, the desire to own others. These are evil and to be resisted, and what better way than by espousing the libertarian cause?

Exactly.

Libertariansim believes that government exists to prevent human beings from abusing each other through the initiation of force or fraud.

[Lucy]

Please remind me where I talked about the majority and where I supported hand-holding. Silly bint.

In your first statement.

Handholding refers to how Britain is run today, and people like you who refuse to understand a way of doing something differently.

[Marina]

Well nobody should live for the sake of politics, and the fundamental difference is that a libertarian believes government should be as small as is necessary to protect individual rights. How is this misguided compared to the broad swathe of individuals who can get passionate about the professional power-grabbing clubs called the Labour and Conservative Parties ..

Gotta say, sasguru seems to have you on the run here Lucy. One problem is that lots and lots of people _do_ live for power-grabbing politics, and by their nature and very philosophy of patrician detachment, libertarians by contrast sit on the sidelines and inevitably get elbowed out of the way and largely ignored.

So complaining about pushy politicians (generally the only ones to reach the top, especially these days) is like grumbling that hyenas are not vegetarians.

[sasguru]

In your first statement.

Handholding refers to how Britain is run today, and people like you who refuse to understand a way of doing something differently.

You seem to have difficulty in basic understanding (I notice expat got my point straight away). Or perhaps it's just women's "logic".
That first statement referred to the human propensity to lust for power so that the politicians initially in charge of a libertarian state would eventually grab more and more power. A fact perfectly illustrated by the "development" of the US where pork barrel politics and the military industrial complex now rule.

[Lucy]

You seem to have difficulty in basic understanding (I notice expat got my point straight away). Or perhaps it's just women's "logic".
That first statement referred to the human propensity to lust for power so that the politicians initially in charge of a libertarian state would eventually grab more and more power. A fact perfectly illustrated by the "development" of the US where pork barrel politics and the military industrial complex now rule.

So basically you are saying that small government is better? But it is human nature that cannot be trusted? This is not a reason to support those who want change.

It's like saying there are slavemasters and there are those who want to free the slaves, but I can't trust those who say they will free the slaves so I will keep on supporting the slavemasters.

Lack of logic? Yours I think.

[sasguru]

So basically you are saying that small government is better? But it is human nature that cannot be trusted? This is not a reason to support those who want change.

It's like saying there are slavemasters and there are those who want to free the slaves, but I can't trust those who say they will free the slaves so I will keep on supporting the slavemasters.

Lack of logic? Yours I think.

You can support any utopia you want. The more intelligent of us tend to be more pragmatic.
HTH

PS Thanks for your childish slavery analogy. Are you about 10 mentally? Now go back to your psycho-babble, dodgy "chariddies" and Free Tibet demos.

[DimPrawn]

You can support any utopia you want. The more intelligent of us tend to be more pragmatic.
HTH

PS Thanks for your childish slavery analogy. Are you about 10 mentally? Now go back to your psycho-babble, dodgy "chariddies" and Free Tibet demos.

Hell have no fury like a woman made to look like an idiot on a public forum.

HTH