The Left’s war on Britishness

[Lucifer Box]

Lucifer, I obviously missed the point. I usually miss such things. I apologise for being a dullard
Is the middle class really to blame for the demise of the upper class? Surely the upper class has increasingly been a class of leisure since the introduction of the House of Commons.

Even so, they still retained great political clout long after that. If you look at the 19th Century, of the 19 serving prime ministers 11 of them were peers, including the Marquess of Salisbury who held office until 1902. In fact, had Margaret Thatcher been killed by the IRA in the Brighton bomb, Lord Whitelaw, an unelected member of the House of Lords, would have become Prime Minister.

[Francko]

They have a history in Wales, Scotland and Ireland too, even if not of world class empires. And it would be nice to recognise that too.

[Lucifer Box]

Obviously the rest of the colonies hate us for our history

I think you will find this is far from the case universally. For example, a recent opinion poll conducted in Sierra Leone revealed a majority of the population in favour of recolonisation.

[Lucifer Box]

They have a history in Wales, Scotland and Ireland too, even if not of world class empires. And it would be nice to recognise that too.

There's plenty of teaching of Welsh history in Welsh schools (plus the Welsh language of course). I'm sure the same is true for Scotland and Ireland.

[WageSlave]

Even so, they still retained great political clout long after that. If you look at the 19th Century, of the 19 serving prime ministers 11 of them were peers, including the Marquess of Salisbury who held office until 1902. In fact, had Margaret Thatcher been killed by the IRA in the Brighton bomb, Lord Whitelaw, an unelected member of the House of Lords, would have become Prime Minister.

Lucifer, there was a rule at the time barring Whitelaw from taking the role of PM. Most likely Tarzan would have been PM.

I certainly take your point about political power...but it's ever decreasing.

[Lucifer Box]

Lucifer, there was a rule at the time barring Whitelaw from taking the role of PM. Most likely Tarzan would have been PM.

Was there? I didn't know that. You learn something new every day.

I know Chamberlain asked Churchill in 1940 if he believed there was any reason why, in the 20th Century, a peer should not be Prime Minister (meaning Lord Halifax). Churchill refused to answer (he suspected it was a trick question) as he knew full well there was no reason why not but, obviously, wanted the job himself.

This is in large part down to how Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair have changed the perception of what the job of Prime Minister is. As we all know, we do not elect Prime Ministers (in theory) as the job, at least until the 1940s was to act as the chair of the cabinet and report to the monarch once a week, and that was pretty much it. In fact, the term "Prime Minister" when coined was a derogatory term used to describe the chief toady to the monarch. Even into the 1990s, there was no task that only the PM could perform. TB has, of course, changed much of that.

[WageSlave]

Lucifer, I don't have the details to hand (sound familiar?), but I believe there was some precedent preventing him from succeeding Maggie.

Have you read 'What might have been', edited Andrew Roberts? There's a piece in the book by Simon Heffer outlining an alternative history in which the Brighton bomb killed MT.

Lucifer, what subject is your degree in?

[Lucifer Box]

Lucifer, I don't have the details to hand (sound familiar?), but I believe there was some precedent preventing him from succeeding Maggie.

Have you read 'What might have been', edited Andrew Roberts? There's a piece in the book by Simon Heffer outlining an alternative history in which the Brighton bomb killed MT.

Lucifer, what subject is your degree in?

I haven't read that, but there was one of those "If...?" documentaries about that last year which hypothesised Tarzan becoming PM on the grounds that Whitelaw would have resigned after the immediate crisis had passed. It reasoned that much of the Thatcher economic reforms would not have happening as Heseltine was known for favouring state intervention in failing industries, leaving Britain a much weaker economy as a result.

My degree was in Biochemistry.

[WageSlave]

I missed that documentary. Probably I was too busy reading magazines in the bathroom
I agree about Tarzan. Plus he favoured a department of economics. Hmmm, a pro-European, interventionist politician....wonderful!

Biochemistry....you are a man of many surprises.