Oath of allegiance to the queen.

[threaded]

and people like threaded forget that in those days the winners were usually pretty good at protecting our forbears from even worse foreign ruthless thugs.

You can't blame HMQ's ancestors (and most of our own) for being thuggish if that was the only game in town.

No, they were good at protecting themselves.

[Fishface]

I thought we were all Citizens of Europe as of June 6th 2000?

no longer 'subjects' - free at last.

I would like have a passport of Europe.

Alleigence to the queen - nationalism - dead concepts.

[The Lone Gunman]

The bit I'm having trouble getting my head around is why I should have to give up my rights and protections because I refuse to swear an oath of loyalty, when I contribute to society both in taxes, and by being an active member of my local community.

I am not a wishy washy liberal - if you threaten me or mine in any substantial way I'll do my upmost to stop you by any means necessary

Any oath sworn by people who do not mean it, has no intrinsic value. If you want people to be part of a community, do things that make them feel part of that community, imposing oaths is a sticking plaster over a much deeper problem.

My personal viewpoint is not to actively subscribe to any political structure. I'm not enough of a numpty to believe I can ignore it - I choose to minimise my interaction with it. I do vote, I believe in democracy, and I can always find things to vote against. (It also prevents the "well if you don't vote you lose the right to comment" crowd)

Difficult to answer, and it will take too long, but....
Any person living in the UK pays taxes to the UK and gets involved in their community as much as they wish to. They are also entitled to vote. They do not have to be a British citizen.
So you are no different to them and as such should only be entitled to the same benefits as them. They do not have the rights and protections of the state.

I am not strictly saying you should swear an oath, I am pointing out that some people (not necessarily you) seem to want every advantage with no responsibilty.

Got to go and start skimming and other stuff now. May respond later.

[snaw]

Snaw please do not patronise me... I AM Irish and I AM a Republican and certainly not a terrorist. My post indicated that to me it read like we all were.

Apologies, wasn't meant in a patronising way - I'm a tim as well, I get it and wasn't trying to suggest that all Irish republicans are terrorists, that's why I corrected what I thought you were correcting me on.

[Spacecadet]

I thought we were all Citizens of Europe as of June 6th 2000?

no longer 'subjects' - free at last.

I would like have a passport of Europe.

Alleigence to the queen - nationalism - dead concepts.

try this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Incompetence...5237357&sr=8-1

[cailin maith]

Apologies, wasn't meant in a patronising way - I'm a tim as well, I get it and wasn't trying to suggest that all Irish republicans are terrorists, that's why I corrected what I thought you were correcting me on.

Sorry - I prob over reacted - PMT - a little more info than you may need there but

[hyperD]

Sorry - I prob over reacted - PMT - a little more info than you may need there but

trust me, that was a fairly mild response compared with 'er indoors!

[wobbegong]

And who created them and allowed them to go that way?

A Government that won't allow appropriate disciplining of children either in the home or in the courts. A Government that champions the rights of the criminal not the victim. A Government that gives benefits to the undeserving and a Governement that time and time again whittles away at the income of the law abiding and the hard working.

Where's the incentive to knuckle down and make something of yourself, to improve yourself, to get an education or to play by the rules. You get the "life of Reilly" by just buggering about and pleasing yourself, secure in the knowledge that it's your "right" to do so.

[Fishface]

I had to do it when I applied for a british passport and citizenship.

I assume you had Irish Passport/Citizenship prior to this application.

Why would you apply for British citizenship? - where do you benefit?

[DodgyAgent]

I assume you had Irish Passport/Citizenship prior to this application.

Why would you apply for British citizenship? - where do you benefit?

where else but at the benefit office itself